Honey Buzzard ID Help, China (1 Viewer)

[xuky.summer]

Xinjiang province Close to Center Asia, Sep 16, 2015, No flight image.
May be a European Honey Buzzard? It has dark eyes but also has poor dark gorget.There is only two records of European Honey Buzzard in China.

http://www.birdnet.cn/thread-1122248-1-1.html
http://www.birdnet.cn/thread-1122943-1-1.html

Thank you very much

 

[xuky.summer]

Any advice?
Thank you very much

 

[P.Sunesen]

They look like Oriental H.B. to me.

Peter

 

[P.Sunesen]

Not that I'm familiar with this species, but the certainly have a different facial expression than European Honey Buzzard. Much smaller, almost nonexistent thick, yellow gape, proportionately smaller bill, and the eye seem too dark, almost black, and, again, different in relative size to the rest of head.

The feet look smaller, and the whole bird more long necked and bulkier.
Just my impression of jizz, as plumage wise I think they match some juvenie EHB well enough.

Peter

 

[xuky.summer]

Hi Peter, Thank you.
All juvenie EHB I havd seen all have very pale eyes, but this one have dark eyes. maybe I can consider hybrid?

 

[P.Sunesen]

Hi Peter, Thank you.
All juvenie EHB I havd seen all have very pale eyes, but this one have dark eyes. maybe I can consider hybrid?

As far as I know juvenile European Honey Buzzard invariably has between medium to dark brown iris (see attached photo), my point was merely that the bird discussed seemingly has even darker, almost black iris.

However, in both species, the gradual transition to paler adult iris colour, starts quite early (nov/dec) and is completed within a year.

Peter

www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?id=showpicture&picture_id=43237

 

[xuky.summer]

Sorry Peter, What I mean is that all juv Oriental Honey buzzard have very pale eyes, I write the wrong.

 

[P.Sunesen]

Sorry Peter, What I mean is that all juv Oriental Honey buzzard have very pale eyes, I write the wrong.

I'm afraid we still don't agree

Here's a typical juvenile Oriental Honey Buzzard also from September:



http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?id=showpicture&picture_id=35991

 

[xuky.summer]

May be caused by light? I saw many juv Oriental Honey Buzzards look like this

 

[P.Sunesen]

Yes, probably an advanced indivial, I have seen photos of juveniles from November with cold, medium brown eyes... As mentioned earlier they do actually change the colour quite rapidly, and my above comment should thus read 'oct/nov' instead of 'nov/dec'

IMO no need to consider the extreme unlikelyness of a hybrid, if one has ever been recorded with certainty.

Peter

 

[xuky.summer]

Thank you very much!