Icelandic finch fun (1 Viewer)

[Edward]

A strange looking finch has been visiting a garden in Selfoss in southern Iceland for the past three days. Pictures here
http://www.gaviatravel.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=457&Ite

I haven't seen it myself (I have bathroom and kitchen to renovate and three bedrooms to paint before my wife has twins!) but those who have say it is visibly bigger than the Common Redpolls it always associates with.
Any bright ideas?

E

 

[Mabel]

It kinda looks like a female Siskin. I base this on the breast streaking, pale-pink legs and bill tail shape andwing coverts. The thing which throws me is the size? Siskins ain't as big as the observers seem to suggest.

 

[tarzzz]

Can't be a Siskin with such a heavy bill ???

Compare:

http://nuolja.se/faglar/tella/gronsiska/album/slides/Grönsiska, hane, Abisko, maj 2005.html

//Ben

 

[Stephen Menzie]

How about a Greenfinch x Redpoll hybrid?

 

[James Lowther]

siskin x twite...??

or, what does a pine siskin look like?

EDIT; actually, reckon menzie's hybrid possibility is more sensible

 

[Frenchy]

I was thinking along thelines of a mule as well. Its common practice in Britain at least to hybridize native finches to produce "mules". Not sure which would produce this bird, but Greenfinch x Redpoll or Greenfinch x Siskin seem reasonable.

I think Pine Siskin shows a slimmer bill and is the same size as Siskin, but not completely sure about that.

 

[StuartReeves]

Some pictures of various hybrid combinations here: http://www.geocities.com/mules_hybrids/

All rather disturbing and with nothing that is a perfect match for this bird.

Stuart

 

[deborah4]

****** X canary? (would obviously be an escape if that were the case though!)

 

[DPR]

Looks like Siskin x Redpoll hybrid ...strange bird indeed.

 

[Steve Waite]

I'm going for Redpoll X Greenfinch. That would explain the heavy bill, yellow outer tail feathers...etc....

 

[Hrafn]

One, well.. interesting suggestion was made on the Icelandic e-mail list last night suggesting the possibility of this bird being Pine Siskin

New photos from the garden owner Örn Óskarsson have been added here..

 

[Andrew Whitehouse]

Must admit that my first thought on this bird was 'maybe it's a Pine Siskin', but I'm not convinced having looked at it a bit more. Check out the bill shape in particular:

http://www.roysephotos.com/PineSiskin.html

 

[JWN Andrewes]

Some pictures of various hybrid combinations here: http://www.geocities.com/mules_hybrids/

All rather disturbing and with nothing that is a perfect match for this bird.

Stuart

Not perfect maybe, but check out the Redpoll x Greenfinch and the Redpoll x Siskin, both females, and neither of which have been colour fed - pretty close, and pretty similar, even bill size! The main difference I can see is yellower tones on the Siskin cross. If I had to choose between them I'd go for Greenfinch - that shadow of a moustache stripe I'm seeing on the Iceland bird puts me in mind of this species.

James

 

[JANJ]

Hello Edward and all.

Whatever this is it´s not a Pine Siskin. Notice in Andrews link (Robert Royse) that Pine has a well streake brest, a completly different head pattern, lacking the ear covert pattern seen here:

http://www.gaviatravel.com/images/rarities/mistery/8.jpg

and of course the bill shape
Some are less well streaked (3 ssp in N. America) and notice the contrast between the yellow in the primaries and secondaries and the whitish (or buffish) wingbars, note that when greater covert tips worn the yellow at the base of the secondaries (inside the dark 'patch', slightly seen here:

http://www.utahbirds.org/birdsofutah/BirdsL-R/PineSiskinTS1.jpg

can give the impression of a yellow wingbar.


http://pie.midco.net/dougback/miscphotos/Pine_siskin5.jpg

Shorter tailed than the Iceland bird:

http://www.geocities.com/tgrey41/Pages/PineSiskinp.html

Notice 3 pages here:

http://www.utahbirds.org/birdsofutah/BirdsL-R/PineSiskin.htm

http://leahy.to/birds/pine siskin.html

The one in the left corner below, and some other nice birds as well:

http://www.bdi.org/GalleryThumbs.cfm?Source=Carnegie Museum of Natural History

JanJ

 

[Edward]

Thanks for the replies, definitely not a Pine Siskin for all the reasons mentioned by JanJ. I still haven't seen this bird but the photos of it basically look to me like a Redpoll and something else thrown in, possibly a Greenfinch. I think the chances of a naturally occurring Redpoll X Greenfinch hybrid turning up in a birder's garden must be pretty minimal. Do such wild hybrids even exist? On the other hand I'm not sure that anyone in Iceland keeps Greenfinches (not a native bird here, extreme vagrant) in captivity and it's illegal to keep Redpolls as far as I know. It could be something completely different but my money's on a pet shop escapee.

E

 

[KnockerNorton]

My best guess is a first year female redpoll x greenfinch. The face pattern is reminiscent of a hybrid involving green singing finch/yellow-fronted canary, and it may just be a hybrid (mule) of that and an Atlantic canary, but I don't think this is an escapee. It looks too 'clean' and a hybrid such as that would probably have rings as it would be from a serious breeder. So I think this is a wild hybrid.

Wild hybrids can occur, especially in the north and in isolated places like Iceland, where birds on the margins of their range (or vagrants) or in marginal habitat can pair with the next best thing in the absence of a genuine mate. Just look at the Farne's Lesser Crested Tern x sandwich tern, Scillies Black duck x mallard, and the hybrids of azure x blue tit and coal tit x other tits that turn up in the far north (see BWP), and also hybrids of willow warbler and chiffchaff.

The numerous captive hybrids show this is genetically possible in European finches of different genera.