Ivory-billed Woodpecker (formerly updates) (1 Viewer)

[Sidewinder]

Here's a snippet from one particular abstract (Croes et al., 2007):

"The results of our study indicate that monkeys become more secretive when hunted, commencing alarm calls only when at a certain distance (typically >50 m) from humans. We found no difference in monkey group size between hunted and no-hunting areas. In no-hunting areas, duikers often freeze in response to approaching observers, but in hunted areas they abandon this strategy and rapidly flee from humans. Duikers also whistle more often in areas where they are hunted frequently. Our findings have at least two important implications. First, behavioral observations of monkeys and duikers may be useful in gauging local hunting intensity in African rain forests. Second, duiker densities are likely to be overestimated in hunted areas, where they more readily flee and whistle, and underestimated in no-hunting areas, where they rely on freezing behavior to avoid detection."

The point: marked changes in behavior do accompany hunting pressure by humans.

 

[Edward woodwood]

I just don't put a lot of confidence in speculation, especially when it's given the weight of fact.

nice list

what's the point? do any of those studies refer to a once noisy, conspicuous animal that has become undetectable? No. A bit gun shy is not wary to the point of undetectability

It's you that's speculating - there is NO evidence that IBWO are 'wary' to the point of being undetectable. The FACTS point to the opposite - and very CLEARLY!

I think we've done this one now?

 

[Edward woodwood]

And if they're so good at avoiding predators why aren't they all over the place, or at least being a little bit more successful?

Tim

 

[rob stoff]

Here's a snippet from one particular abstract (Croes et al., 2007):

"The results of our study indicate that monkeys become more secretive when hunted, commencing alarm calls only when at a certain distance (typically >50 m) from humans. We found no difference in monkey group size between hunted and no-hunting areas. In no-hunting areas, duikers often freeze in response to approaching observers, but in hunted areas they abandon this strategy and rapidly flee from humans. Duikers also whistle more often in areas where they are hunted frequently. Our findings have at least two important implications. First, behavioral observations of monkeys and duikers may be useful in gauging local hunting intensity in African rain forests. Second, duiker densities are likely to be overestimated in hunted areas, where they more readily flee and whistle, and underestimated in no-hunting areas, where they rely on freezing behavior to avoid detection."

The point: marked changes in behavior do accompany hunting pressure by humans.

yes, in highly intelligent social primates which, in this case, are actually easier to detect in areas with hunting pressure because they give alarm calls. 1/10 must try harder.

Rob

 

[rob stoff]

Bear in mind that antipredatory behaviors may be transmitted and perpetuated by genes, culture, or both. I personally don't side one way or the other regarding wariness in the IBWO. I just don't put a lot of confidence in speculation, especially when it's given the weight of fact.

what evidence do you have for stating there may be a genetic/ inherited component (as there would surely have to be in IBWO) in the changed behaviours described in the papers you mention?, The subjects and topics in the titles you give would indicate that they are dealing with learnt behaviours, not inherited behaviours.

Rob

 

[tmguy]

Ivory bills are not wary. I think they fly and do what they do in spite of people. It is inexplicable to anyone who hasn't actually spent time in the woods here in Florida. I cannot speak from experience in other states. What you are dealing with is a bird, a flying animal as small as a football. Flying around in thousands of acres of heavily forested waterways. The percentage of this area that is accessable by any one human is minuscule and any observations of this bird are for the most part chance meetings by this person and the bird. Sightings last seconds. The birds are going about their business and if you happen to be lucky enough to be in the flight path then good for you. As for finding them repeatedly this would be possible if a nesting location was found. In Florida where I go this has eluded me and others for no other reason than the habitat is mostly inpenetrable. Only a loud mouth who hasn't seen this would deny this. Anyone who frequents the woods here would realize this. Hunters don't even go into the woods where I go to find them. They don't because it is all but impossible and there would be nothing to hunt for because the prey simply moves aside into the less hospitable areas.

As for why they were so easy to find in Master Audobon's day, the woods were a different environment. There weren't subdivisions and cities that forced them into mostly unpenetable wet environments. And simply, there were more birds. But wary? I don't think so.

I had the pleasure of speaking to, back in the late 70's, Marty Stouffer, the film maker, and the first question I asked him about his north woods adventures and films was, "How do get so close to these large deer and bear and other animals?" His response was that when you go into areas where there is no habitation by humans, and the animals have not been exposed to humans then these animals are less likely to run and are much easily approached. In Audobon's day the animals and birds in the uninhabited wilderness were less afraid or "wary" of people and were no doubt easier to stumble on. Anyone here in florida who spends time in the woods will tell you that deer in less hunted areas are much less afraid and easier to approach. I think it has to do with them being in more remote areas. I have gone into some far away places in Ocala forest and walked right up to a buck and have been as surprised as he was. But go into more traveled forests where deer are hunted and they are less likely to be seen.

Bill

 

[Big Phil]

Hi Bill,

This:

...for no other reason than the habitat is mostly inpenetrable. Only a loud mouth who hasn't seen this would deny this. Anyone who frequents the woods here would realize this. Hunters don't even go into the woods where I go to find them...

seems a little bit at odds with:

Regarding the picture.

I took that picture around midday on thursday, january 26, 06. It was taken through the passenger side window of my car. I was in the area on my website referred to as the 1st search area.

The bird is real. It is not a decoy. It is not in an orange tree. It is alive and breathing.

If you were in a car it wasn't really 'inpenetrable', was it now?.

ATB,

Phil

 

[rob stoff]

Hi Bill,

This:



seems a little bit at odds with:



If you were in a car it wasn't really 'inpenetrable', was it now?.

ATB,

Phil

sorry, losing track, is this Tmguy the one who produced the bizarre picture of an obvious model?

Rob

 

[Jane Turner]

In a word yes!

 

[timeshadowed]

Bill also said this:

. . .any observations of this bird are for the most part chance meetings by this person and the bird. Sightings last seconds. The birds are going about their business and if you happen to be lucky enough to be in the flight path then good for you.

His January 26, 06 sighting could fit into this category and thus would not be a contradiction.

 

[Jane Turner]

This sounds a bit like the Santa Claus argument - IBWO only shows to people who believe it still exists.

 

[rob stoff]

Bill also said this:


His January 26, 06 sighting could fit into this category and thus would not be a contradiction.

except for the fact that its blatantly a model so would be expected to linger a while longer, at least until manually removed.

Rob

 

[tmguy]

Hi Bill,

This:



seems a little bit at odds with:



If you were in a car it wasn't really 'inpenetrable', was it now?.

ATB,

Phil

I have seen the bird in quite less impenetrable areas and not just where that photograph was taken. But my repetitive sightings have been in quite inhospitable areas, I have covered this on my site, I was offering information on why it is so hard to find a nesting location and this theory of wariness. I have seen the ivorybill flying adjacent to 2 lane county roads as well. I'd be happy to share my details and information on this as well. But really, do you care?

 

[tmguy]

In a word yes!

You have no evidence of this and really I would have presumed you are more intelligent than this. Bill

 

[tmguy]

This sounds a bit like the Santa Claus argument - IBWO only shows to people who believe it still exists.

Santa claus....lol. Yeah dear, Santa Claus. That's really charming. Bill

 

[timeshadowed]

This sounds a bit like the Santa Claus argument - IBWO only shows to people who believe it still exists.

So you trot out the Santa, Bigfoot, LochNessy stuff again.

Feeling backed into a corner again,Jane?

 

[rob stoff]

You have no evidence of this and really I would have presumed you are more intelligent than this. Bill

so the picture of the model wasn't yours then?

I must have been away when all this strangeness was going on, anyone know the post numbers covering it?

Rob

 

[tmguy]

except for the fact that its blatantly a model so would be expected to linger a while longer, at least until manually removed.

Rob

Blatantly a model,,you cannot think for yourself obviously and are no different than the snotty boy on the playground that follows the bullies around poking at people. Stupid and arrogant is a lovely way to go through life boy. You don't need me of all people to point that out of course, you just haven't figured out a way to wipe your own hiney and think for yourself, so I'll be here for your amusement. LOL. Bill

 

[salar53]

Blatantly?

except for the fact that its blatantly a model so would be expected to linger a while longer, at least until manually removed.

Rob

Blatantly a model? How do you know for certain? Is it made of wood? If so, what kind? Or is it made of metal? Again, what kind? Again, how do you know?

One poster here kept saying it was made out of balsa wood, before finally admitting he was "stringing".
When the photo first appeared, people scoffed and said the bird was on an orange tree! I believe the tree was then identified as an oak.

And TMGuy on his site states, "There are access roads throughout parts, and a large portion is inaccessible by motor vehicle".

 

[Jane Turner]

So you trot out the Santa, Bigfoot, LochNessy stuff again.

Feeling backed into a corner again,Jane?

What do you think? Have managed to produce evidence that Santa doesn't exist yet?

Did I read that TMGuy was banned from the IBWO site? If not I apologise for casting nasturtiums or even aspersions.... if he was, then why?