Ivory-Billed Woodpecker Possibility (1 Viewer)

[Edward woodwood]

there's really no places left for it to live that haven't been searched Ash

SBC could be anywhere in a vast vast area

 

[Jane Turner]

What about Cuba...?

 

[Edward woodwood]

I think Cuba was last possible refuge and was extensively searched in last few years but nothing I'm afraid
some birds are going......
some have already gone!

 

[Jane Turner]

I got hopeless lost about 2 minutes into some of the Cuban Forest.... extensive searching sounds like a trixy problem.. it not a small island...... I prefer to hope.!

I did see a Gundlach's Hawk though!

 

[Edward woodwood]

considered extinct by Birdlife in USA where was always at a low density

in Cuba (after extensive searches in 80s) there is a minute possibility that some birds exist in the Sierra Maestra as habo is good BUT there have been no previous records from here anytime

 

[Ashley beolens]

I agree Jane!

 

[Edward woodwood]

this same situation is facing several species still Extant!
now is the time to do something!

 

[Jane Turner]

There have been plenty of rediscovered birds chaps..

'Extinct' Ibis breeding in Syria
08-07-2002

A new colony of critically endangered Northern Bald Ibises has been discovered in an Al Badia (desertic steppe) area of central Syria. The small colony contains three pairs which were discovered incubating eggs, and a seventh adult. This is the first evidence of the continued breeding of Northern Bald Ibises in the Middle East since a colony at Birecek in Turkey became extinct in 1989. Since then there have been sporadic sightings in Saudi Arabia and Eritrea, suggesting that a breeding population still existed somewhere in the region.


Lost manakin is rediscovered in Brazil
29-05-2002

The Golden-crowned Manakin has been found by bird researchers forty-five years after it was last seen and first discovered. However, the finders fear that its survival could be threatened by continued destruction of the rainforest for timber extraction, creation of pasture and road development.

A survey in September 2001 of remote Damar Island in eastern Indonesia has rediscovered the Damar Flycatcher Ficedula henrici, a species not seen since the 19th Century.

Damar, a 198 km2 volcanic island, has a distinctive avifauna that includes the endemic flycatcher, two endemic subspecies - of Rufous-sided Gerygone Gerygone dorsalis kuehnii and Golden Whistler Pachycephala pectoralis dammeriana - and 15 restricted-range species. The island was last visited by ornithologists in 1898 when the Damar Flycatcher was observed for the first and last time, until now

 

[Ashley beolens]

I think it is always going to be hard to prove either way (unless a photo or live bird is captured) but any woodland bird is going to prove even harder to see than one that sits in the open, especially in a large wooded area or with very limited numbers. Just like to keep hope alive!

 

[Edward woodwood]

it's very hard to prove a negative!

 

[Jane Turner]

er actually its impossible... so you can't win

 

[GreatHornedOwl]

Coming in incredably late here, but, For someone to so outrageously tell us a bird is extinct as GreathornedOwl did is very insulting, perhaps they should read more journals on birds! The New Zealand petrel was thought to be extinct, then last year a possible siteing was muted, then at the tail of last year a few Brits found and photographed a number at sea. Thus an extinct bird is now just very endangered, non of us can know everything, and yes the Ivorybilled woodpecker may well no longer exist and the 1999 siteing may have been a hoax but which of us can truely say we know for sure?

Ashley,

What I previously said here is based on information from:
- James Tanner's study (the bible on the Ivorybill)
- Erroll Fuller's book on extincy birds (very good book, beautifully illustrated)
- other chapters in books on the Ivorybill, and lots and lots of scientific and less scientific articles on the Ivorybill
- E-mail correspondence with a Dutch ornithologist who is considered an authority on woodpeckers and who was involved in searches for the Ivorybill on Cuba and also in the Pearl river area.

But really, all you need is Tanner's study. Even in his youthful optimism, he couldn't find more than six woodpeckers in the whole USA by 1939. He gave an estimate of the total population of 22, but this was rather a guess based on the available habitat then in the SE USA. He spent 2 years looking all over the South, but only ever found them in the Singer tract, and there he found them without too much difficulty - because, as Michael says, it was a very conspicuous bird.

6 in 1939 and declining, 1 female left in 1944. There was a lot of discussion going on about pictures taken in 1971 of an Ivorybill in the USA, but only a very few people ever saw them, they were attacked as fakes, and frankly I don't understand why these were never published ... If they're pics. of real woodpeckers, I'm sure many well-meaning and respectable ornithologists would love to see them, but the American ornithologist who has them won't show them although he claims they are of real living Ivorybills.... strange, if you ask me.

About Cuba, they've searched all over the place and couldn't find anything that hinted of living Ivorybills by 1992. Last credible sighting there was maybe in 1987.

After hesitating for a long period, I sent an e-mail to D Kulivan to politily ask him about his sighting, but as you can read above, he basically told me to b****r off. Now ask yourself:
- if indeed he'd had his gut full of replying to questions about woodpeckers, then why the hell did he bother to reply to me, telling me that he didn't want to answer my question????????????? Uh ???????
- if indeed this person saw an extinct species and was 100% sure of it, wouldn't you expect him to be a little more enthousiastic? I imagine, if I'd ask Michael to give me a short description of his slender-billed curlew sighting, he would happily oblige, because he's sure of what he saw, and happy about it, and wants to tell the world about that.

I think the Ivorybill is extinct and the 1999 sighting was a hoax, now if you want to believe I'm an outrageously insulting firebrand, that's your problem; may I kindly suggest though, that you deal with reality and the facts.

I understand that you feel sad about the loss of this species and refuse to believe it's extinct - the Ivorybill seems to have some quality that makes people emotional; if however somebody posts a picture of a living Ivory-billed woodpecker here tomorrow to prove the opposite, then I'll be the first to say here that I was wrong - I'm man enough to do that.

 

[Ashley beolens]

Perhaps I was a little over the top, with my original post, and therefore I appologise, but they are not FACTS as you call them, they are assumptions, probably very valid assumptions but as both Tim and Jane have said it is almost if not copmpletely impossible to prove a negative.

There was a lot of discussion going on about pictures taken in 1971 of an Ivorybill in the USA, but only a very few people ever saw them, they were attacked as fakes, and frankly I don't understand why these were never published ... If they're pics. of real woodpeckers, I'm sure many well-meaning and respectable ornithologists would love to see them, but the American ornithologist who has them won't show them although he claims they are of real living Ivorybills.... strange, if you ask me.

Try putting youself in their position, you take photos af a presumed extinct bird, the whole ornithological world calls you a fake, why would you put yourself through the hassle of appeasing these people who do not want to believe you anyway? I know I would not.

After hesitating for a long period, I sent an e-mail to D Kulivan to politily ask him about his sighting, but as you can read above, he basically told me to b****r off. Now ask yourself:
- if indeed he'd had his gut full of replying to questions about woodpeckers, then why the hell did he bother to reply to me, telling me that he didn't want to answer my question????????????? Uh ???????
- if indeed this person saw an extinct species and was 100% sure of it, wouldn't you expect him to be a little more enthousiastic? I imagine, if I'd ask Michael to give me a short description of his slender-billed curlew sighting, he would happily oblige, because he's sure of what he saw, and happy about it, and wants to tell the world about that.

I'm sure Michael would, but not if all the feedback he had recieved in the past was ridicule or accusations that he was lying or faking it.

Now as I have said you are most likely to be right that they are extinct, but try and keep an open mind. On this though I think we will have to agree to diasagree.

 

[GreatHornedOwl]

Perhaps I was a little over the top, with my original post, and therefore I appologise, but they are not FACTS as you call them, they are assumptions, probably very valid assumptions but as both Tim and Jane have said it is almost if not copmpletely impossible to prove a negative.



Try putting youself in their position, you take photos af a presumed extinct bird, the whole ornithological world calls you a fake, why would you put yourself through the hassle of appeasing these people who do not want to believe you anyway? I know I would not.



I'm sure Michael would, but not if all the feedback he had recieved in the past was ridicule or accusations that he was lying or faking it.

Now as I have said you are most likely to be right that they are extinct, but try and keep an open mind. On this though I think we will have to agree to diasagree.

As I said, I understand that people get emotional and go over the top when it's about Ivorybills - no hard feelings here

If I take pics of a living dinosaur and survive the experience and I mean, HONEST REAL PICTURES OF A SUPPOSEDLY EXTINCT ANIMAL,.... tell me, what would I have to fear if I'm 100% honest??? That they won't believe me??? Well that's basically their problem then isn't it??? And believe me the world isn't as bad as that yet, there's still people who will believe you .

About our fearless turkey hunter who saw the woodpeckers but then after a while refuses to discuss them - he's got nothing to lose if he's honest and sure of what he saw. .... Feedback.... I thought his professors at college believed him and backed him up??? And they're authorities in the field aren't they??? But ever since the recordings of drumming woodpeckers in the Pearl turned out to be gunshots, they keep their silence too, it is said... I'd say a case of Pilate washing his hands in you know what, but I won't say that here ;-)

About an open mind, I hope I have that at least, and as I said if tomorrow you prove me wrong, well dude, I'll be HAPPY about it - a rediscovered species is worth that.

 

[Larry Lade]

I believe it might be wiser to say that most ornithologists have come to the conclusion that the Ivory-billed Woodpecker is probably extinct. One might "be painting them self into a corner" by stating that it is 100 percent certain that the specie no longer exists, if the woodpecker should be found alive and well in Cuba or elsewhere.

 

[GreatHornedOwl]

I will be very happy if someone found them alive and well in Cuba. My personal embarrasment would be irrelevant compared to the rediscovery of the Ivory-billed woodpecker.

 

[samuel walker]

Ivory Billed WP

The chances of it being an Ivory-billed Woodpecker are about the same as the chances of me finding a Thylacine - i.e., a million to one against is optimistic. But be sure to check it out: it would be the biggest find in birding since .... well ... since I can't think what. Some of the most assuredly extinct species have turned up years later alive and well. As mentioned above, don't tell anyone bar the bird society, and even there pick your confidant.

Why not The Whooping crane was written off in'45 only to be found in '60 I would look into the history of how that discovery was handled.
Sam

 

[GreatHornedOwl]

Why not The Whooping crane was written off in'45 only to be found in '60 I would look into the history of how that discovery was handled.
Sam

Between 1945 and 1960 there's only 15 years. But between 1944 and now, there's almost sixty. If those Ivory-billed woodpeckers are still around somewhere in the USA, they have eternal life.

It would be interesting if those 1971 photographs were finally examined and published, to determine if the species at that time still existed in the USA or not. If those pictures are for real, then the sightings of the latter half of the 20th century would be more credible.

 

[Widowmaker]

Well I have not been able to see the bird at the same time my dad has but he did comment that it calls out in series and according to guides I have read, the ivory billed was one high pitche single note. He is apparently seeing a pileated woodpecker. The only way I can explain him describing the color pattern is that he is describing a red headed woodpecker.

 

[Larry Lade]

Ivory-billed Woodpecker's Call

Information from The Audubon Society's "Encyclopedia of North American Birds" by John K. Terres states that the Ivory-billed Woodpecker makes (made) a sharp, plaintive, nuthatch like, single note, kent or pait, like tooting of a child's toy trumpet, sometimes this note is uttered in series, kent, kent-kent, kent.