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Kahles and Swarovski (1 Viewer)

WJC

Well-known member
For almost 50 years, I have done the best I could to save people from themselves—relative to consumer optics—through my binocular books, ATMJ, magazine articles, and lectures. Further, I have promised myself I would do the best I could to help with the misinformation that abounds on the Internet.

I never cease to be amazed that so many people who beg to learn more about optics and binoculars and who seek their answers on binocular forums instead of forums dedicated to universities and optical engineering.

Occasionally, when I have asked why, I am greeted with, “I can’t understand all that stuff.” This tells me that those observers are not nearly as interested in learning as they are in pontificating on what they have been speculating about. This puts them on an intellectually dangerous road.

“The enemy of knowledge in not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge.” — Stephen Hawking

and

“Any fool can know. The point is to understand.” — Albert Einstein

Just think of how high the bar of optical understanding could be raised if those last two quotes from two of the 20th Century’s greatest minds could get a little traction.

Some people want to talk about curvature of field when what they are actually commenting on is clinical distortion. Some talk about an aberration that engineers at their favorite binocular company “refuse” to address, oblivious to the fact that aberrations do not occur in a vacuum and that correcting one could adversely affect 2 or 3 others. But, of course, that would fit well into their pre-school world view of things.

So, I guess things will continue as they have for decades with the most ludicrous “facts” continuing to flourish unabated.

I think anyone reviewing this thread will readily admit that there are myriad cases of individuals who—for years—have owned some of the finest binoculars in the world and who seem dedicated to endlessly ... UPGRADING those binoculars, even though it can often be scientifically and medically proven that the eye/brain combination cannot actually SEE the difference. Oh yes, the view may be more pleasing (to that observer). But reality, being what it is, might lay the credit at the feet of any number of corrected aberrations or physical attributes and not the problem/aberration/condition the observer is extolling.

While the previous may be a relief for me, it is not why I created the thread. I created it to deal with mistakes, not in aberrations, but in similar misunderstandings relative to the industry.

Recently, I saw a thread on Swarovski and Kahles and I think one person said they were the same. If that is so, what does it say about this great company that has earned the top shelf in my optics shop. (see attached)

I had 11 models of Swarovski in stock, I sold enough to earn the crystal Habicht from the company and they knew I really cared. (see attached) However, I always cared more for the truth than hype. (see attached) My detractors said I couldn’t make any money doing things my way. I just laughed all the way to the bank.

Below is an image of an 8x32 Kahles and an 8x32 Celestron Noble. ‘Notice the many similarities? (see attached) Notice also that the Celestron says “MADE in Japan” while the Kahles just says “Austria.” The Kahles box did say, “Made in Austria.” And it was ... the BOX I mean!

The Kahles, which came from the same plant in Japan cost $319 more in 1995 (if I remember correctly). So many people who visit binocular forums seem to have a penchant for seeing if they can waste more money than their neighbor.

Both of these binoculars were very good instruments. But if you were into bragging rights in a big way, the Kahles would have been a much better purchase.

“The most hated man is the one who tells the truth.” — Plato

Bill
 

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I never seem to be amazed that so many people who beg to learn more about optics and binoculars and who seek their answers on binocular forums instead of forums dedicated to universities and optical engineering.
This is really a good idea: "forums dedicated to universities and optical engineering". Thank you.
 
Bill:
Kahles is a sister company of Swarovski, they are on the same campus in Absam, Tyrolia, Austria. Kahles is best, well known for its riflescopes, they are among the best available. I have experience.
Kahles has had many binocular models available over the years, and some have been made in Japanese factories.
So, what is the point in your diatribe......nothing new here.
Jerry
 
Bill - with respect I'm not sure what you're trying to say with your perhaps slightly verbose post.

Kahles target market is the hunting fraternity rather than bird watchers. Binoculars have always been a sideline - their focus has been their riflescopes (always made in Austria). Most of their binoculars have been outsourced to Japan - as far as I know the only one's that are Austrian made are the Helia S range which are the old Swarovski SLC's and still made in the Absam factory (Swarovski bought Kahles in the mid 70's). I've not used the much cheaper Japanese made Helia (about half the price of the Helia S) but at half the price I wouldn't expect them to be as good as the Helia S and I don't think many buyers would.
 
I've not used the much cheaper Japanese made Helia (about half the price of the Helia S) but at half the price I wouldn't expect them to be as good as the Helia S and I don't think many buyers would.
I saw those, too. I don't think anyone ever thought they were made by Swaro however, as Bill seems to imply.
Wasn't that always just the Helia S?
I'd certainly be interested to know how the cheaper Helia actually performs btw. I don't think I saw any reviews yet.
 
I saw those, too. I don't think anyone ever thought they were made by Swaro however, as Bill seems to imply.
Wasn't that always just the Helia S?
I'd certainly be interested to know how the cheaper Helia actually performs btw. I don't think I saw any reviews yet.


They do look remarkably similar to the Kite Ibis and the DDoptics EDX - I suspect the Helia are also Kamakura produced and probably similar performers at around the same price.
 
A Kahles marked "Austria" is also labeled "Made in Japan"?
If not, critics for Steiner not labeling its binoculars apply to Kahles too. Right?
It is not about the (excellent) quality, it is about marketing.

Edit: I mentioned Steiner because the said critics are easy to find in BF
 
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While the previous may be a relief for me, it is not why I created the thread.
Over time one sees little sign of relief...

I created it to deal with mistakes, not in aberrations, but in similar misunderstandings relative to the industry.
Who has the misunderstandings here? Swarovski owns Kahles. The Helia S is essentially the same as the former SLC 42; other Kahles-labeled models obviously are not of similar quality. The idea that buying the Kahles version of a Celestron gives "bragging rights" is absurd, since few people except hunters have ever heard of Kahles, and their products aren't even marketed in the US. Ka-who?

There have of course been many threads mocking groundless "Made in Germany" claims; for the most ridiculous example I know, see:
Kaps Binoculars - Kaps Optik
So you can't imagine that everyone except you is unaware of such absurdities and in need of enlightenment.

In fact, there is a gratifying level of knowledge on this forum, often dispensed more effectively. You could rest easier.
 
A Kahles marked "Austria" is also labeled "Made in Japan"?
If not, critics for Steiner not labeling its binoculars apply to Kahles too. Right?
Puzzled by your wording.

Didn't you mean: If so, critics for Steiner not labeling its binoculars apply to Kahles too?

Lee
 
The question is absurd in the first place. (Presumably he hasn't distinguished between Helia S which is made in Austria and the cheaper imported Helias.)
 
Counter points: experts sometimes lose perspective

Simplicity may be better than complexity
Laypeople always come up with our terminology for stuff! We can't learn all the proper technical lingo for everything...especiallly when you've got 4 or 5 different hobbies. We know what we're talking about with "field curvature" even if it doesn't match the scientific term :)
 
Aberration, noun
(optics) The convergence to different foci, by a lens or mirror, of rays of light emanating from one and the same point, or the deviation of such rays from a single focus; a defect in a focusing mechanism that prevents the intended focal point.

If the above is pretty much what you mean when you use the word “aberration” you are probably correct ….. if not, you may be mistaken.

Words have meanings, especially in science/technology/engineering, and you can’t just grab the one you think it might be, or even worse, just guess.

The purpose of speech (and writing) is to permit and ensure the precise exchange of thoughts and ideas between individuals. Grabbing a word out of the air does not facilitate that process, because you will either make an incorrect statement or completely confuse your correspondents. You may even convince them that you are ignorant.
 
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The purpose of speech (and writing) is to permit and ensure the precise exchange of thoughts and ideas between individuals.
a fine argument against the dumbing-down that is prevalent in today's culture! I suppose you're right, some things, matters of science, were never meant to be simple
 
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