Kahles and Swarovski (1 Viewer)

[lilcrazy2]

Bill, post 61,
When the meeting of the Binocular History Soceity took place in Portland/Vancouver some years ago, Jan van Daalen and myself decided to join and we wanted to visit Leupold to see its binocular production and production programme, so we approached Leupold and asked whether we could visit. The answer we received was :"there is nothing to see, since we do not make binoculars". I have mentioned this before but not everybody reads every post as I can understand, but Bill is perfectly right when he states that Leupold does not make binoculars.
Gijs van Ginkel

I only said that Leupold made one line of Gold Rings marked "made in Oregon USA" in 1992 - were you there then?

 

[lilcrazy2]

Hours ago, here on BirdForum one fellow tried to prove me wrong concerning Leupold MAKING binoculars. He used sales literature and newspaper reports to prove me wrong. The idea that I had been in the plant in Beaverton more than one on business or that my Leopold rep confirmed that they were bought binos “OFFSHORE” didn’t seem to matter one whit with this fellow. After all, he had seen it in print, which of course settled it ... in his mind.

After the rep realized I was in no mood to be bamboozled, he told me the real story. For a short time in the last part of the 1990s, “Leopold ASSEMBLED two pocket models from Asian parts.” Some may remember me taking that bull by the horns here on BirdForum.

(So, LittleCrazy2 if you can prove Leopold MANUFACTURED (not assembled) binoculars in their plant between 1995 and 2005, I will DOUBLE my offer to $100! Talk is cheap, especially on binocular forums. Do you have facts of just air?!)

Well Bill, I guess under your definition of MADE or MANUFACTURED, since the Gold Rings made by Leupold in 1992 and 1993 that were marked "Made in Oregon USA" were merely assembled there since they used lenses imported from Japan. Leupold had manufacturing problems with the parts they were making, and some quality problems, and with the high $1600 price tag, Since gun control legislation was on Congress's mind in the early 1990's ( resulting in the Assault Weapons Ban of 1994), sales of riflescopes exploded in 1993 and 1994, necessitating a plant expansion in 1994. Thus Leupold stopped making that line of Gold Rings, and had susbsequent models produced fully in Japan again.

I guess under your interpretation of " made or manufactured" that Swaros are not made in Austria, but merely assembled there, and that Leicas are not made in Portugal, but merely assembled there.

After reading your posts over the last 8 months, I am reminded of the crazy uncle no one wants over for Thanksgiving dinner.

"When arguing with a fool, make sure they are not doing the same thing" - Abraham Lincoln

 

[Paultricounty]

Well Bill, I guess under your definition of MADE or MANUFACTURED, since the Gold Rings made by Leupold in 1992 and 1993 that were marked "Made in Oregon USA" were merely assembled there since they used lenses imported from Japan. Leupold had manufacturing problems with the parts they were making, and some quality problems, and with the high $1600 price tag, Since gun control legislation was on Congress's mind in the early 1990's ( resulting in the Assault Weapons Ban of 1994), sales of riflescopes exploded in 1993 and 1994, necessitating a plant expansion in 1994. Thus Leupold stopped making that line of Gold Rings, and had susbsequent models produced fully in Japan again.

The assault (I say assault sarcastically) weapons ban was not really a weapons ban. It was only ban of imported semiautomatic firearms rifles that looked like military full auto firearms. The only thing the ban did in a day in a day is double and triple the price of domestically manufactured fire arms like Colt and Smith & Wesson to name a few. There was never ban and the actual numbers of those fireman’s sold increased over the following ten years. And those manufacturers had a field day with the profit margins.

I guess under your interpretation of " made or manufactured" that Swaros are not made in Austria, but merely assembled there, and that Leicas are not made in Portugal, but merely assembled there.

After reading your posts over the last 8 months, I am reminded of the crazy uncle no one wants over for Thanksgiving dinner.

"When arguing with a fool, make sure they are not doing the same thing" - Abraham Lincoln

 

[Paultricounty]

Im a little surprised at the lack of respect here from some for someone who I believe is older than many of us. When I was growing up I was to taught to respect my elders, even if they’re wrong or I disagree with what is being said.

I make a comment about what I think is a sleazy retailer (Cameraland) and I get a half dozen people saying how disrespectful I’m being. But where is everybody when this guy is being called every name in the book? Why, because he’s being a little pompous, is that the bar for us all to attack the individual poster.

 

[Maljunulo]

Im a little surprised at the lack of respect here from some for someone who I believe is older than many of us. When I was growing up I was to taught to respect my elders, even if they’re wrong or I disagree with what is being said.

I have found that the older I get, the more I like this concept.

 

[Steve C]

Since this has come up, I will add some history relayed to me(over a period of time with multiple conversations) by a senior project manager at Leupold who worked extensively with the original Gold Ring and looked extensively at reincarnation of that line. The original Gold Ring design was a Leupold design. Their original intent was to proceed on the made in USA theme, as had always been their tactic. Remember this was circa 2005 and COO laws were different than today. Leupold was planning what could be considered an "assembled in USA" tack, since Leupold does not, and never has had, the capacity to produce their own optical glass, so they, like everybody else who can't (or doesn't) make their own glass, had to rely on imported. The line here is how one choose to define "made in" vs "assembled in". Leupold has extensive capacity for making lots of stuff necessary in the production of optical instruments. Leupold for years marketed under the Made in USA format. The original idea for the Gold Ring was to do as much of the total assembly at the Leupold factory in Beaverton, OR as they could, importing glass and other sundry pieces as needed. The problem was their design and marketing plans outstripped their ability to put it all together at Leupold. So the first Gold Rings came directly from the OEM in Japan. While selling the first couple of runs of the imported GR binoculars they went into high gear on their assembly. However the internet found out they were initially not "Made in the USA" and all hell broke loose. Leupold then jumped the gun and took on the assembly before their capacity was matured. The result was that the first couple of runs from Leupold were beset with some quality issues. Again the internet branded the GR a failure. Leupold eventuality got their assembly act together, but by that time the GR brand had a tarnish that Leupold couldn't overcome. Bye Bye Gold Ring. So it had a mixed history of being imported and and some assembled in USA. From the demise of the GR, all Leupold binoculars are imported.

Hope this helps. This is factual as far as I have been able to determine.

FWIW it seems the OP essentially took human nature to task. Sort of Quixotic. Human nature offers lots of targets. By the way Bill, I have learned much from you and your various works, Peace be with you,

 

[lilcrazy2]

Since this has come up, I will add some history relayed to me(over a period of time with multiple conversations) by a senior project manager at Leupold who worked extensively with the original Gold Ring and looked extensively at reincarnation of that line. The original Gold Ring design was a Leupold design. Their original intent was to proceed on the made in USA theme, as had always been their tactic. Remember this was circa 2005 and COO laws were different than today. Leupold was planning what could be considered an "assembled in USA" tack, since Leupold does not, and never has had, the capacity to produce their own optical glass, so they, like everybody else who can't (or doesn't) make their own glass, had to rely on imported. The line here is how one choose to define "made in" vs "assembled in". Leupold has extensive capacity for making lots of stuff necessary in the production of optical instruments. Leupold for years marketed under the Made in USA format. The original idea for the Gold Ring was to do as much of the total assembly at the Leupold factory in Beaverton, OR as they could, importing glass and other sundry pieces as needed. The problem was their design and marketing plans outstripped their ability to put it all together at Leupold. So the first Gold Rings came directly from the OEM in Japan. While selling the first couple of suns of the imported GR binoculars they went into high gear on their assembly. However the internet found out they were initially not "Made in the USA" and all hell broke loose. Leupold then jumped the gun and took on the assembly before their capacity was matured. The result was that the first couple of runs from Leupold were beset with some quality issues. Again the internet branded the GR a failure. Leupold eventuality got their assembly act together, but by that time the GR brand had a tarnish that Leupold couldn't overcome. Bye Bye Gold Ring. So it had a mixed history of being imported and and some assembled in USA. From the demise of the GR, all Leupold binoculars are imported.

Steve
Not to beat a dead horse but the only Gold Ring I was referring to as being "made in Oregon USA" in 1992/93 are these early monstrosities that were made in 10x40 and 12x50. see the pics below. My understanding was that the initial manufacturing run of these were made in Japan, and then when inventory ran out they were made in the Leupold factory.

Leupold, gold ring 10x40 binoculars | eBay

Gold Ring, 10x40, Leopold's best 10 x 40 binoculars.

www.ebay.com

I believe the line you are talking about in 2004/2005 being assembled in Oregon are these more modern binos made in 8x32, 10x32,8x42, 10x42 and they are clearly marked "Assembled in USA". see pics in listing.

Leupold Golden Ring 8x42 Binoculars | eBay

This is a good pair of Leupold Golden Ring Binoculars 8 x 42. These are in pre-owned condition. I do not see any clouding or scratches on the lens. Visibility through these is great! I have listed lots of pictures to view.

www.ebay.com

Around 2008 these were made in a HD model with Leupold being marked on the side of the bridge near the hinge. But I have never seen these marked "assembled in USA". see pic

Leupold 8x. 8x42 used In Box Golden Ring Binoculars - Rare | eBay

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0;">Leupold 8x. 8x42 used In Box Golden Ring Binoculars, comes with original box, paperwork, case and strap. Left lens has a small scratch on it but is not visible when lookingthrough the binoculars.</p> <p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0...

www.ebay.com

Bill referenced some pocket binos possibly being assembled there in late 1990's. I assume these are them and I have no idea where they were made or assembled. They were made in 9x25 & 10x28 and were IF and not CF. There is a box for the 10x28 on ebay that says "made in USA"

Don't know if you still have your old 9x35 IF porros, but I still have my pair. Not the best but.

 

[Gijs van Ginkel]

licrazy post 81,
We were in Oregon at that time, since the BHS meeting took place there.
Gijs van Ginkel

 

[PeterPS]

The US does not have any import taxes&fees for binoculars, which should be an (indirect) proof that there is no sport optics industry to protect. The Fraser Optics IS binoculars are marked "Made in the USA", but Fraser mostly sells to the US military and likely has little competition from other companies (such as Japanese ones). I guess few people know if the Fraser binos are really made in the US, and in fact why should one care?

 

[Binastro]

Where were the Beecher Mirage binoculars made?

Where are they made now?

B.

 

[dries1]

Lilcrazy, the horse has been dead for a while now, just waiting for transport to the abattoir.

 

[Maljunulo]

Lilcrazy, the horse has been dead for a while now, just waiting for transport to the abattoir.

And it’s starting to smell funny.

 

[tenex]

FWIW it seems the OP essentially took human nature to task...

Excellent perspective, thanks for that. But always neglecting to look in the mirror...

 

[WJC]

Excellent perspective, thanks for that. But always neglecting to look in the mirror...

There are so many things that the rank and file just don’t want to get their minds around. I am of no importance; what I am trying to do, is. That is seeing to it that the truth be known in a sea of opinions—many totally wrong. So, all those who get their strokes by trying to pick me apart, go for it. At least I am good for making some people happy and giving them something to brag about to others of the same ilk. You’re welcome.

I do look in the mirror and it hurts to be so often slandered simply for trying to help those who would slander me. The truth is not always pleasant but it is always the truth. But the payoff for me is knowing that after 17 years, the most my naysayers can come up with is my demeanor. One would have thought that after that much time those who really wanted to insult or cripple me would have chosen to attack my assertions. Alas, that hasn’t effectively happened; ‘wonder why? For me, that is quite telling.

Tenex, I have never meant you or anyone else on BirdForum any harm. The only time I have really been pushed over the edge was when trying to put a lid on Martin Pond (Optic_Nut). And even that was for good cause.

Cheers and Merry Christmas,

Bill

 

[tenex]

I did not address #93 to Bill, and will not format a reply that addresses him now, lest it provoke further reflexive ranting about this "rank and file" who senselessly "slander" and "betray" bearers of "truth", which is a more lifeless and rotting carcass by now than Leupold.


... But yes, Wednesday is already the solstice so best wishes of the season to all. I've always appreciated it as a time of reflection and peace, though that spirit doesn't come as easily to me these last few difficult years.

 

[Will K]

I was alarmed by the level of "BS" presented by some contributors in this thread. But It seems normal. Just read old posts (2014, etc) and same debates, same attitudes, same roles, same dialogue of the deaf. Conclusion: nothing new. Boring.

I always learn things from these forum debates, even the 'heated' ones.

Not only do I understand more about optics, but also the infinite interpretability of language It makes me a better writer, I hope.

Best wishes to all!

 

[Maljunulo]

…… but also the infinite interpretability of language …..

This!

It is possible to write what one thinks is a carefully and tightly-written statement, which could not possibly be interpreted in any way except as meant, and someone will come out of the blue with a totally off-the-wall comment, which has no bearing on the original intent.

Others write things which leave one wondering, not only what they meant, but even at times what they said.

It is a source of never-ending amusement and frustration.

 

[Troubador]

This!

It is possible to write what one thinks s a carefully and tightly-written statement, which could not possibly be interpreted in any way except as meant, and someone will come out of the blue with a totally off-the-wall comment, which has no bearing on the original intent.

Others write things which leave one wondering, not only what they meant, but even at times what they said.

It is a source of never-ending amusement and frustration.

Well said. Of course on internet forums we lack clues such as body language, facial expression and tone of voice which out in the real world all help understanding.

Lee

 

[Maljunulo]

Well said. Of course on internet forums we lack clues such as body language, facial expression and tone of voice which out in the real world all help understanding.

Lee

That is precisely why it is necessary to be especially careful to write carefully and tightly-written statements.

The loss of those visual clues does indeed make communication more difficult and uncertain here in this place.