L. cachinnans? (1 Viewer)

[Frubecula]

Location: Port of São Pedro da Afurada, Vila Nova de Gaia, Portugal
Date: 2024-02-13

Beak, head, eye, legs and plumage seem to agree with cachinnans 2nd winter, but the small mirror that, according to the literature, perhaps should already exist in P10, is not visible.
Your opinion please. Thank you.

 

[Prestdj]

id say caspian but the scapulars look very dark but within range, also regarding p10 depends where the has come from, a northern bird may develop less quickly than a bird from a warmer climate, but on shape it looks fine for caspian

 

[HH75]

Hi Frubecula,
I can see why this bird might give a Caspian Gull impression, but, for me, this is a 2nd-winter Yellow-legged Gull. The bill shape, leg colour, apparent lack of white mirror on P10 based on the underside of the far wing (but some Caspians lack this) all suggest that species more than Caspian, and, of course, Caspian Gull is probably quite scarce as far west as Portugal.
Regards,
Harry

 

[lou salomon]

Not sure about this bird. My first impression was like Harry's, a slender 2nd cycle YLG: bill at tip with strong curve, not that a long tibia, quite bold pattern to lesser coverts but on the other hand not so contrasting in greaters (overlap zone to cachinnans). But then I saw the very extensive white tongue on the underside of p10 - which is a Caspian trait, including its ~90° angle in which it ends towards the black tip. Are there more pics of this bird, Frubecula?

 

[Frubecula]

Hi Frubecula,
I can see why this bird might give a Caspian Gull impression, but, for me, this is a 2nd-winter Yellow-legged Gull. The bill shape, leg colour, apparent lack of white mirror on P10 based on the underside of the far wing (but some Caspians lack this) all suggest that species more than Caspian, and, of course, Caspian Gull is probably quite scarce as far west as Portugal.
Regards,
Harry

Thanks, Harry
Yes, is quite scarce in Portugal, little few birds per year, two in 2024 already. That´s why I am seeking for experts' opinions.

 

[Frubecula]

id say caspian but the scapulars look very dark but within range, also regarding p10 depends where the has come from, a northern bird may develop less quickly than a bird from a warmer climate, but on shape it looks fine for caspian

Thanks Darrell

 

[Frubecula]

Not sure about this bird. My first impression was like Harry's, a slender 2nd cycle YLG: bill at tip with strong curve, not that a long tibia, quite bold pattern to lesser coverts but on the other hand not so contrasting in greaters (overlap zone to cachinnans). But then I saw the very extensive white tongue on the underside of p10 - which is a Caspian trait, including its ~90° angle in which it ends towards the black tip. Are there more pics of this bird, Frubecula?

Hi lou,
Thanks for your response.
I don't have any photos of the bird in flight, but I have these three that might help.

 

[Alexander Stöhr]

Hello,

wow! Thanks Darell, Harry and Lou!
I thought of a Lesser black backed Gull and only the extensive white on the outer tail (a feature of YLG here?) made me hesitate.
And the pale, subdued yellow bill nearly lacking a red gonys spot made me hesitate with YLG
And many Caspian type Gulls with paler, eyes (that I think I can ID); still have dark peppered spots in the iris

 

[lou salomon]

Ok, now it's pretty clear - a Yellow-legged Gull indeed. Bill is long and thin but tip is "swollen" and upper mandible strongly curves down. Plus its colour: a vivid beige seen at this time of year when base colour is changing from pink to yellow, often seen in YLG, can't remember a cachinnans looking like this. Iris colour: not really pale yet but still clearly getting paler - matched only by very very few cachinnans in 2nd cycle. And now length of p10 tongue can be assessed correctly (in pic 9861): only slightly longer than 1/4 of visible length of p10 which is perfectly in line with 2nd cycle YLG. Can't tell whether it's a 'lusie' or not but I suspect a normal nominate michahellis.

 

[Alexander Stöhr]

Again thanks for correction Lou!

 

[Frubecula]

Hello,

wow! Thanks Darell, Harry and Lou!
I thought of a Lesser black backed Gull and only the extensive white on the outer tail (a feature of YLG here?) made me hesitate.
And the pale, subdued yellow bill nearly lacking a red gonys spot made me hesitate with YLG
And many Caspian type Gulls with paler, eyes (that I think I can ID); still have dark peppered spots in the iris

Thanks Alexander.

 

[Frubecula]

Ok, now it's pretty clear - a Yellow-legged Gull indeed. Bill is long and thin but tip is "swollen" and upper mandible strongly curves down. Plus its colour: a vivid beige seen at this time of year when base colour is changing from pink to yellow, often seen in YLG, can't remember a cachinnans looking like this. Iris colour: not really pale yet but still clearly getting paler - matched only by very very few cachinnans in 2nd cycle. And now length of p10 tongue can be assessed correctly (in pic 9861): only slightly longer than 1/4 of visible length of p10 which is perfectly in line with 2nd cycle YLG. Can't tell whether it's a 'lusie' or not but I suspect a normal nominate michahellis.

Hi lou,
Thank you very much for the clarification.
I believe the discussion has reached a conclusion. Thanks again Darrell, Harry, Alexander and lou, for this very interesting exchange of information and points of view!
Cheers!