Marsh Warbler? Avon, SW England (1 Viewer)

[pete5353]

Hello,

I'm new to this forum.

I photographed this warbler in Avon, SW England today and was wondering if it could be a marsh warbler (darker colouring, pale legs) rather than a reed warbler.

Thank you for your help!

 

[dan pointon]

Hi Pete.

Presumably you don't have any rump shots? I agree with your comments re coloration (although I would poss expect a MW to look even more olive), but this may be down to the light considering the lush green surrounds of the bird. I'm not seeing any pale tips to the primaries either- indeed most Reed Warblers have paler tips than this bird! I would be inclined to stick with RW for this bird.

 

[chris butterworth]

Reed Warbler.

Chris

 

[KenM]

Cosmetics and wing structure look good...everything seems to fit ok..I think you've got it. Here's a ''classic'' Spring Reed Warbler I shot last year for comparison.

cheers

 

[dwatsonbirder]

Looks a bit too long billed for Marsh warbler, agree with the points Dan has made also. Any shot of the rump would be useful.

 

[Kingfisher21]

Personally, I have never seen legs that pale on a reed warbler.

 

[dan pointon]

Cosmetics and wing structure look good...everything seems to fit ok..I think you've got it. Here's a ''classic'' Spring Reed Warbler I shot last year for comparison.

cheers

'Here's a highly contrasty, poorly lit photo of a RW that provides little use as a comparison'....

 

[KenM]

'Here's a highly contrasty, poorly lit photo of a RW that provides little use as a comparison'....

Agreed..my images are not as good as the OP's, however, I've taken all...and more contrast, from the same image!...and it's still a ''Classic'' Reed Warbler, showing the warm rufous tones, as for bill length, I think you'll agree that it appears shorter than the OP's, this can be variable dependant on crown posture. If you look at the second image supplied (another inferior image), again showing obvious rufous tones...quite unlike the OP's bird.

 

[Mark Lew1s]

I see, among other things, no pale primary tips, a P3 emargination falling roughly level with the secondaries, and tertials not overhanging the secondaries, all of which point towards reed warbler.

 

[KenM]

I see, among other things, no pale primary tips, a P3 emargination falling roughly level with the secondaries, and tertials not overhanging the secondaries, all of which point towards reed warbler.

Having trawled the web images for MW...I find that in most cases 'tertial' 3 overhangs the secondaries, however in a number of cases they appear to be in alignment (this may well be posture related..so presumably not set in stone?).

Perhaps the lighting is not ''contrasty'' enough to show any pale primary tips.

Looking at Image 3 the starboard wing appears to show alignment...whereas Image 1 shows overhang (bit of movement there?).

Emarginations can be very supportive...would like to have seen better shots of these.

FWIW...It looks nothing like a RW...What were your other reservations?

 

[Mark Lew1s]

I'd expect to see more contrast in the tertials in a marsh warbler, and more evenly spaced primary tips. Also the bill looks a little long to me.

 

[pete5353]

Hi Pete.

Presumably you don't have any rump shots? I agree with your comments re coloration (although I would poss expect a MW to look even more olive), but this may be down to the light considering the lush green surrounds of the bird. I'm not seeing any pale tips to the primaries either- indeed most Reed Warblers have paler tips than this bird! I would be inclined to stick with RW for this bird.

sorry Dan no Rump shots - thanks for sharing your knowledge

 

[Jane Turner]

You can see the 3rd pp emargination is right up in the secondaries and the primary tips are very worn.

I'll dig out the Frodsham Acro - which was an example of what heavy wear can do.

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=58096&highlight=frodsham

 

[Jane Turner]

Here is a comparison to a Spring Marsh Warbler

 

[Wimpy]

Apologies for a slight high-jacking but this is the same question.

Taken in Lesvos this year. If I can remember the song, I think it might be a reed warbler but I would be grateful of some confirmation.

Thanks

 

[Jane Turner]

That's an Eastern Olivacous Warbler

 

[KenM]

There's no argument with the emargination! clearly it conforms to scirpaceous.

However I've Never seen a Spring RW without any vestige of warmth. What are the emarginations like...on any hybrid RW x MW?

 

[Wimpy]

Thanks Jane. Looks like I did high-jack this thread.

 

[Mark Lew1s]

There's no argument with the emargination! clearly it conforms to scirpaceous.

However I've Never seen a Spring RW without any vestige of warmth. What are the emarginations like...on any hybrid RW x MW?

There's a very interesting discussion on a cold coloured spring Reed warbler (that was initially thought to be a Marsh) on the link Jane posted a few posts up.

I'm not aware of any hybridisation between Reed and Marsh - not that that means it can't happen of course. I do think that there are enough pro reed features on the OP bird to make the most likely outcome a cold coloured reed warbler or a normal reed warbler that looks cold coloured as a result of some sort of photographic artefact.

 

[Jane Turner]

or as in the Frodders bird, a Reed Warbler with most of its rusty bits worn away