Most outdated bird name (1 Viewer)

[jurek]

I wonder what bird name is the most outdated? I came across two candidates:

Kentish Plover (European name for Snowy Plover) - which occurs almost worldwide, but stopped breeding in Kent in 1935, that is 88 years ago.
Coal Tit - which is neither black like a coal nor has anything to do with coal mines. It is named after a coal as a type of black female make-up, which is no longer mentioned in any dictionary: Cambridge, Merriam-Webster, Collins, Macmillian, Oxford or American Heritage Dictionary. Although there are several modern brands named coal, the original coal make up is no longer findable. It was used in 19. century, so would be outdated for over 120 years.

Seems weird, like an engineer would still discuss moving pictures and automobiles instead of films and cars. The word automobile came out of common use in the 1970s so only ca 50 years ago.

 

[Jacana]

Townsend's Warbler, Audubon's Shearwater, Blyth's Frogmouth...

Any of the patronym names really 😉

 

[awiner]

Townsend's Warbler, Audubon's Shearwater, Blyth's Frogmouth...

Any of the patronym names really 😉

Why not both? King of Saxony Bird-of-Paradise. Hasn't been any King of Saxony in 105 years, but we're still honoring one. (I suppose Pharaoh Eagle-Owl might have that beat by 1900+ years, but that's not honoring a specific Pharaoh.)

 

[njlarsen]

Kentish Plover (European name for Snowy Plover) - which occurs almost worldwide, but stopped breeding in Kent in 1935, that is 88 years ago.

Some of us (probably most) follow lists where snowy and kentish plovers were split from each other. Today there was a post about splitting the subspecies Charadrius seebohmi as a full species

Kentish Plover

Küpper et al 2012 Küpper, Edwards, Kosztolányi, Alrashidi, Burke, Herrmann, Argüelles-Tico, Amat, Amezian, Rocha, Hötker, Ivanov, Chernicko & Székely (in press). High gene flow on a continental scale in the polyandrous Kentish plover Charadrius alexandrinus. Mol Ecol. [abstract]

www.birdforum.net

(It seems I cannot directly link to the very last post in this thread, so scroll down)
Niels

 

[l_raty]

Coal Tit - which is neither black like a coal nor has anything to do with coal mines. It is named after a coal as a type of black female make-up, which is no longer mentioned in any dictionary: Cambridge, Merriam-Webster, Collins, Macmillian, Oxford or American Heritage Dictionary.

My impression was that Coal Tit / Koolmees / Kohlmeise / Mésange charbonnière / Carbonero común (only the English name refers to Periparus ater; the others all refer to Parus major) was in reference to the black "staining", mainly on the head of the birds, that prompted reminiscences of typically black-stained coalmen. (Which is admittedly an outdated image, though.)
Isn't the "black make-up" that you have in mind kohl, rather than coal ? This is originally an Arabic word for antimony, unrelated to Germanic coal / kool / Kohl. If so, you will find that it's still in dictionaries, e.g. Collins, Merriam-Webster.

 

[Xenospiza]

The tits are definitely named after coal (carbon).

I like a bit of history in bird names. I think they should only be changed if they are offensive, not because people "don't understand them anymore".

We have quite a few outdated geographical names though.
• Formosan: unlike Persian, Siamese or Burmese, this is not in use as an adjective anymore. In most cases, it was changed to "Taiwan", why not in all cases?

The Dutch name for King-of-Saxony Bird-of-paradise translates as "Streamer-bearer", which makes sense when you see the male.
I think it makes sense not to name a bird from New Guinea after a long-dead German king, just like a lot of African birds could be named after something or someone African, not after Livingstone or Stanley.

 

[Jim LeNomenclatoriste]

I like a bit of history in bird names. I think they should only be changed if they are offensive, not because people "don't understand them anymore".

I agree with you because I'm really concerned but about French names, as an author. But i don't want to get off topic.

 

[YuShan]

I like it when bird names have a bit of history connected to them. I regret many of the changes.

 

[Mysticete]

Inca Dove, which doesn't even occur on the same continent as the Inca people it was named after.

Muscovy Duck, a New World Duck which also has nothing to do whatsoever with anything in Russia.

 

[James Lowther]

Coal Tit is fine as a name. Its origins are a bit obscure (and not necessarily correctly described in the OP) but its not misleading or ambiguous or offensive and doesn't need "updating" IMO (in the same way that various bizarre place names don't need updating either, these are names, not words in general use). Also, what's the alternative?

one name that always irritates me however is Wild Turkey.

cheers,
James

 

[Kirk Roth]

In America, we of course have a lot of English bird names which are "outdated" simply because they reminded early ornithologists of superficially similar Old World species - robins, warblers, and sparrows being classics. I'd argue that those count.

But I think the grand champions for outdated bird names would be etymologies based on words which are no longer really spoken or remembered. My favorite being the Gyrfalcon. Nobody is quite sure where "gyr" comes from, but it is likely old Norse/Germanic. A good candidate is the word "gir" or "geier" which stands in for "greedy." This is the same root word in "Lammergeier." I've also read speculation that it could be related to the old Norse "geir" meaning a spear, (which could be related to the bird's hunting style, its large bill as compared to other northern falconry birds, or even its use as a "projectile" in battle - though I don't know how well ANY of these ideas are actually supported).

Interestingly, any of the "northern origin" theories of gyrfalcon name counter the prevailing modern pronunciation. They would be "gear-falcons" not "jeer-falcons." The latter pronunciation was seemingly popularized in the 1100s and after, with people tying the name to greek and Latin words like "gyro" (supposedly because the birds circle in the sky as they hunt? I mean, do they? Any more than any other raptor? Especially the thermal-riding Buteos which would have been very familiar?)

So not only is the name outdated, so is how we say it.

I'm out of time, but here is a fun article about the name and history of the Gyrfalcon:

https://hal-normandie-univ.archives-ouvertes.fr/hal-02139381/document

 

[Björn Bergenholtz]

...
Muscovy Duck, a New World Duck which also has nothing to do whatsoever with anything in Russia.

The name "Muscovy Duck" has nothing (and never had anything) to do with either Moskow or even Russia, though far more with Musk (earlier also written Musc).


In my mind, there are no Bird name that (really, truly) deserve to be called the "Most outdated" one. In my opinion they are all part of Ornithological History, all reflecting their time, and the context in which they were coined ...

As long as we know what they mean, and why. Most of them do carry an explanation (and often a good story), well worth to be told, even the most silly, or detestable, ones [those that we, of course, could change today, if it's necessary (alt. an absolute necessity)].

 

[Jim LeNomenclatoriste]

Inca Dove, which doesn't even occur on the same continent as the Inca people it was named after.

Ancient Authors was in their nomenclatural logic, they translated the binomial name in common language (French, English, Dutch, etc). Columbina inca = Inca Dove, Colombe (Tourteline) inca, etc.

In my mind, there are no Bird name that (really, truly) deserve to be called the "Most outdated" one. In my opinion they are all part of Ornithological History, all reflecting their time, and the context in which they were coined ...

As long as we know what they mean, and why. Most of them do carry an explanation (and often a good story) well worth to be told, even the most silly, or detestable, ones [those that we, of course, could change today, if it's necessary (alt. an absolute necessity)].

Yes, it's exactly that. As far as I'm concerned, I call them zoological names. Explain that to French ornithologists, they don't know anything about ornithological history, they're just field birders 😂

 

[vergan]

My impression was that Coal Tit / Koolmees / Kohlmeise / Mésange charbonnière / Carbonero común (only the English name refers to Periparus ater; the others all refer to Parus major) was in reference to the black "staining", mainly on the head of the birds, that prompted reminiscences of typically black-stained coalmen. (Which is admittedly an outdated image, though.)
Isn't the "black make-up" that you have in mind kohl, rather than coal ? This is originally an Arabic word for antimony, unrelated to Germanic coal / kool / Kohl. If so, you will find that it's still in dictionaries, e.g. Collins, Merriam-Webster.

Still, in spanish Periparus ater is named as Carbonero garrapinos.
Cheers

 

[Björn Bergenholtz]

Explain that to French ornithologists, they don't know anything about ornithological history, they're just field birders 😂

Jim, that's your task. I'm too busy explaining it to the Swedish ones.

 

[Jim LeNomenclatoriste]

Jim, that's your task. I'm too busy explaining it to the Swedish ones.

I am quite contemptuous towards my colleagues field birders because even if they have ornithological knowledge, knowledge of ground, they unfortunately do not have culture, and particularly of literary culture.

 

[Xenospiza]

I am quite contemptuous towards my colleagues field birders because even if they have ornithological knowledge, knowledge of ground, they unfortunately do not have culture, and particularly of literary culture.

Based on how ornithologists name new species (mostly patronyms in bad Latin), the desk-bound ones deserve your contempt as well.

It is not a healthy attitude though. I like how birding can unite all kinds of people... even if we disagree about the suitability of some names!

 

[Jim LeNomenclatoriste]

Based on how ornithologists name new species (mostly patronyms in bad Latin), the desk-bound ones deserve your contempt as well.

In this case, I am mainly talking about the history of common names, not especially their etymology, but their first introduction into literature.

I recently wrote an article in which I demonstrated that the current French name of Saxicola rubicola, "Tarier pâtre" was incorrect, and that it should be called "Traquet rubicole", because this species is the true "Traquet" and it must remain so. It is for this bird that this name is intended, it is its behavior that earned it its name. While the name "Pâtre" was introduced to describe sub-Saharan African populations that bear the Latin name Saxicola torquatus. In Europe we have Saxicola rubicola, which cannot bear the name "pâtre".

Moreover, the "Tarier", name commonly used as generic, is in fact a species of Traquet, the Traquet tarier (Saxicola rubetra), and the genus Oenanthe and relative bear the name Motteux as generic.

it earned me a lot of criticism and reproaches. However, those who have read my article support me.

I changed these names in my publication in which I respect the ornithological reality

 

[Mysticete]

I think you can still think a name is "outdated" while also liking the name and not wanting to see it changed. I'd hate to lose Kentish Plover, Coal Tit, or Gyrfalcon.

Although I would prefer if Inca Dove was changed to Aztec Dove...

 

[Björn Bergenholtz]

I think you can still think a name is "outdated" while also liking the name and not wanting to see it changed. I'd hate to lose Kentish Plover, Coal Tit, or Gyrfalcon.

Although I would prefer if Inca Dove was changed to Aztec Dove...

Sure, I agree, though, I believe there's a difference between "outdated" and "most outdated" ... and I certainly (definitely) doesn't want to change the name of the Birds you mention. Great names, great stories, all of them.

However, regarding (the less well-founded) name; Inca Dove Columbina/Scardafella inca LESSON 1847 (OD here), as: "LE COLOMBICOLIN INCA, (Chamæpelia inca, ...)", I guess you simply will have to blame Monsieur Lesson himself.

Well, that it, I'm done in this thread/topic (too much fun, too much buzz).

See you all in the Bird Name Etymology sub-forum!

/B