new from Zeiss - could be very interesting (1 Viewer)

[postcardcv]

I've just been reading about a new product on the Zeiss website... looks very interesting. It's a combined eyepeice & 4mp camera for use with a Diascope, gives 40x on an 85FL and 30x on a 65FL. It comes complete with a cordless shutter release and looks like it could be very user friendly. The unit is fully waterproof and takes SD cards.

According to the website there will be a limited production of only 1000 units, I guess they're testing the water with it. Assuming it works as it looks like it will it could be a great bit of kit. Should be very easy to take shots without disturbing viewing, looks like digiscoped flight shots would be much easier... It will be interesting to see what the shutter lag and fps rate are, as these could make or break it.

Check the Zeiss website for more info and some pictures...
http://www.zeiss.co.uk/C12567A80033F8E4/Contents-Frame/5E6B31A921D17AB8C12571C5004EAE5E

 

[Dr Manjeet Singh]

I've just been reading about a new product on the Zeiss website... looks very interesting. It's a combined eyepeice & 4mp camera for use with a Diascope, gives 40x on an 85FL and 30x on a 65FL. It comes complete with a cordless shutter release and looks like it could be very user friendly. The unit is fully waterproof and takes SD cards.

According to the website there will be a limited production of only 1000 units, I guess they're testing the water with it. Assuming it works as it looks like it will it could be a great bit of kit. Should be very easy to take shots without disturbing viewing, looks like digiscoped flight shots would be much easier... It will be interesting to see what the shutter lag and fps rate are, as these could make or break it.

Check the Zeiss website for more info and some pictures...
http://www.zeiss.co.uk/C12567A80033F8E4/Contents-Frame/5E6B31A921D17AB8C12571C5004EAE5E

Well I think it may be something like the Kowa T.D.1-scope+camera-postcardvc- i am using but flight shot are near impossible.Regards.Kowa has the camera on the left side and the l.c.d screen fixed at the rear with the eye-piece on top.Looks the same type with reshuffling the design.Check my my gallary -for Kowa T.D.1

 

[postcardcv]

I have a feeling that this will have a couple of big advantages over the Kowa TD1 - If you ever wanted to upgrade to a newer model it would just be buying a new camera/eyepeice, not a complete unit (as it is with the Kowa), so should work out cheaper. Also you can use it with the 85FL which gives a much bigger objective than you get on the Kowa (even using the 65FL the light gathering will be better than the TD1).

When I tested a TD1 I found that the shutter lag was a big problem, assuming this is better on the Zeiss then flight shots should be possible. Though obviously using manual focus will be a disadvantage. I have also heard that Kowa are developing a new version of the TD1, so perhaps this will improve on some of these issues.

 

[Dr Manjeet Singh]

I have a feeling that this will have a couple of big advantages over the Kowa TD1 - If you ever wanted to upgrade to a newer model it would just be buying a new camera/eyepeice, not a complete unit (as it is with the Kowa), so should work out cheaper. Also you can use it with the 85FL which gives a much bigger objective than you get on the Kowa (even using the 65FL the light gathering will be better than the TD1).

When I tested a TD1 I found that the shutter lag was a big problem, assuming this is better on the Zeiss then flight shots should be possible. Though obviously using manual focus will be a disadvantage. I have also heard that Kowa are developing a new version of the TD1, so perhaps this will improve on some of these issues.

Thanks any idea when kowa are coming out with a new one-is it possible to get any material to read-yes your suggestion is a sound one-in fact i am looking for a 2nd set-hope it comes soon-Thanks .regards.

 

[postcardcv]

Thanks any idea when kowa are coming out with a new one-is it possible to get any material to read-yes your suggestion is a sound one-in fact i am looking for a 2nd set-hope it comes soon-Thanks .regards.

I'm sorry Dr M, but I don't have any further info, it's all just rumour so far...

When I tested the TD1 my big criticisms where the small objective, the slowness of the camera (shutter lag), and the fact that the camera could not be upgrade without buy a complete unit... It has been mentioned to me that the new model will deal with all of these issues, so it will be very interesting to see what Kowa come out with. I do wonder if Kowa have been developing a similar system to this new Zeiss one. As and when I hear or see anything more about the new Kowa I'll let you know.

 

[PYRTLE]

I've just been reading about a new product on the Zeiss website... looks very interesting. It's a combined eyepeice & 4mp camera for use with a Diascope, gives 40x on an 85FL and 30x on a 65FL. It comes complete with a cordless shutter release and looks like it could be very user friendly. The unit is fully waterproof and takes SD cards.

According to the website there will be a limited production of only 1000 units, I guess they're testing the water with it. Assuming it works as it looks like it will it could be a great bit of kit. Should be very easy to take shots without disturbing viewing, looks like digiscoped flight shots would be much easier... It will be interesting to see what the shutter lag and fps rate are, as these could make or break it.

Check the Zeiss website for more info and some pictures...
http://www.zeiss.co.uk/C12567A80033F8E4/Contents-Frame/5E6B31A921D17AB8C12571C5004EAE5E

Great concept and coming from Zeiss, bound to be of a high image and build quality - (however!) - here comes the negative bit......who's going to keep it / demonstrate it and at what price! [ NEW THREAD - GUESS THE PRICE ]Its a bit of a luxury item to have in a shop, given the likely limited market, knowing that the internet herberts will just reduce the price but not have the hassle of trying to show how it works.
Good luck with it.

 

[postcardcv]

...who's going to keep it / demonstrate it and at what price! [ NEW THREAD - GUESS THE PRICE ]

It seems to be based on a Zeiss fixed eyepeice (retail for about £200ish), so assuming it's a good quality 4pm camera you could realisticly pay £200 for that too... if the whole unit combined comes in at around £500 (pure speculation on my part) then I think it will be a fair price and will have wide appeal. I think if it's priced much higher than that (and I guess it will be) then it will lose appeal. Traditional digiscoping may be a bit more clumsy but personally I wouldn't pay to much of a premium just to have it in a single unit...

I wonder if Sony have produced the camera part of this set up, given that Zeiss lenses are often in Sony digicams there must be some kind of working relationship (as there seems to be between Panasonic and Leica). It will certainly be interesting to see how this unit works (and sells) perhaps some of the other big scope manufacturers will follow suit. I'd love to see what Nikon could produce...

I guess the real market winner would be a third party unit with adapters to fit different scopes...

 

[Dr Manjeet Singh]

I'm sorry Dr M, but I don't have any further info, it's all just rumour so far...

When I tested the TD1 my big criticisms where the small objective, the slowness of the camera (shutter lag), and the fact that the camera could not be upgrade without buy a complete unit... It has been mentioned to me that the new model will deal with all of these issues, so it will be very interesting to see what Kowa come out with. I do wonder if Kowa have been developing a similar system to this new Zeiss one. As and when I hear or see anything more about the new Kowa I'll let you know.

Thank you my friend-regards. :t:

 

[iporali]

Upon brief examination I was a little disappointed with:
- too much power (if fixed; 20-40x zoom would be nice)
- no zoom (even digital?)
- small display
- 4 Mpix
- simultaneous viewing & digiscoping => reduced brightness due to semipermeable mirrors

From these specs it looks like a device for documentary long-distance shots rather than a serious nature photography tool. Interesting concept though.

Ilkka

 

[jc001]

Thanks...looks interesting.

It could be a step in the right direction for less cluttered digiscoping.Id be suprised if it was rubbish being made by zeiss,but maybe not?

 

[Andy Bright]

4mp is ample if well implemented, people will always lust for more but you get down to the basics of what a birder requires and 4mp is fine.

I reckon it's too early to judge (bit of exif data available on the Frog and Butterfly shot), just have to wait and see.

I hear that there will be a couple of these on show at the birdfair.

 

[Chris Galvin]

It is going to be interesting to see the capabilities of this unit and only hope that the Techy guys at Zeiss are going to bring one over to the Birdfair for us all to judge how good it is. I tested the TD-1 here in the UK and wrote a review of it for Birdwatch almost 18 months ago. At the time I thought that the idea of a scope with an integral camera was ground-breaking, if somewhat in it's infancy. This was borne out by the operational limitations of the TD-1 and it only has a 3MP camera. Although I think that Dr MAnjeet has used this equipment and pushed it to it's limits. His pictures are very good. Any one who wants a full review of the TD-1 email me privately.

What is particularly pleasing is to see that one of the BIG boys of the optical manufacturers are taking the needs of us birders/digiscopers seriously and spending money in R+D to come up with realistic practical solutions for the modern day birder. Particularly when it comes to the issue of remote shutter release, well done Zeiss. What will Swarovski produce??????

As for the issue of 4MP, dont forget that that old favourite the CP4500 and the superb U4R only have 4MP and that is big enough to print at A4 size, how big do you wanna go.

 

[Paul Jarvis]

Nice spot Posty. I'm sure it won't be cheap coming from Zeiss. I hope they have one at the birdfair, it would be nice to have a closer look. On the face of it the idea is quite good, but who is going to test it.

Thanks for finding this.

Paul

 

[Andy Bright]

...and only hope that the Techy guys at Zeiss are going to bring one over to the Birdfair for us all to judge how good it is.

As I said above, seems like there will be 2 of these at the birdfair.

cheers,
Andy

 

[iporali]

As for the issue of 4MP, dont forget that that old favourite the CP4500 and the superb U4R only have 4MP and that is big enough to print at A4 size, how big do you wanna go.

Chris and Andy,

True - 4MP is not bad at all - especially if it is well implemented like in the CP4500 and U4R. But here we are talking about a luxury item and the potential customers will most likely (and rightfully so) have very high expectations. IMHO No 4MP sensor is nowadays on par with the Zeiss eyepiece if the best 7-8MP cameras can record more true details (on a Zeiss eyepiece) than those great old 4MP digiscoping cameras. And what is more: I am not convinced that the Zeiss 4MP is going to be that well implemented. They are even saying themselves "... innovative signal processing with DxO image software for outstanding photos..." - to me the example images just look heavily processed, with lost tones and details like in many average modern digicams (with many small pixels). I would much rather have a large 4 MP sensor which did NOT need innovative noise reduction software.

I would be happy to see the innovative Zeiss product to succeed, but it is going to have challenges with some details. :t:

Best regards,

Ilkka

 

[postcardcv]

Just wondering if anyone actually saw one in action at Birdfair (I failed to get there) and if so what they thought of it...?

 

[Chris Galvin]

Just wondering if anyone actually saw one in action at Birdfair (I failed to get there) and if so what they thought of it...?

I had a play with one for about 10 minutes and thought that it OK. Problems that I could see was that at about £1000 it is a lot of money
for an eyepiece. Or a lot for a camera that could not be used anywhere other than on the scope. The viewer seemed somewhat small. On the eyepice there is what appears to be a diopter adjustment. When you look through the eyepice there is a reticle like on a rifle sight. This reticle consists of two concentric circles and both opf them have to be sharp or the image in the camera will be out of focus, however when your target is sharp in the eyepiece it looks out of focus on the LCD viewer!

On the left hand sie of the unit is a circular disc that unscrews with a half turn. This is where the SD card mini USB port and a video port is located. I couls see this being a problem in the field and the disc could easily be lost. A rubber disc that is affixed to the unit in the style of the rubber cover for the USB/remote release on the CP4500 would be a better solution.

The eyepiece is bright with no discernible colour fringing and the remote control is a great idea.

This is afterall a proto-type and sure to be updated after extensive trials.

Chris Galvin Photo

 

[mak]

I had a play with one for about 10 minutes and thought that it OK. Problems that I could see was that at about £1000 it is a lot of money
for an eyepiece. Or a lot for a camera that could not be used anywhere other than on the scope. The viewer seemed somewhat small. On the eyepice there is what appears to be a diopter adjustment. When you look through the eyepice there is a reticle like on a rifle sight. This reticle consists of two concentric circles and both opf them have to be sharp or the image in the camera will be out of focus, however when your target is sharp in the eyepiece it looks out of focus on the LCD viewer!

Chris.
Regarding the LCD viewer, if my memory serves me correctly this has nothing to do with the diopter adjustment on the eyepiece. Maybe I should not try to question a digiscoper.
mak

 

[HokkaidoStu]

I had a play with one for about 10 minutes and thought that it OK. Problems that I could see was that at about £1000 it is a lot of money
for an eyepiece.

I think that's the understatement of the century!!!!

It IS a good idea though. I have a Pentax scope so could possibly use this ( I believe there are astro-adapters for the Zeiss eyepieces). But at that price? No way.

 

[Robert L Jarvis]

In response to Chris, I do not think it was a prototype as I was told they were hoping to sell an allocation of a 1000 units in the UK.