new tiny Zoom F3 recorder (1 Viewer)

[Dave Boyle]

I guess that's with a single mic, and maybe without phantom power?

I'm asking because my current setting, F3 +1 x mic 48 V, 96mHz sampling rate, I get only +3 hours of recording with 2 eneloop black, and ~4.5 hours with 2 eneloop blue (it should be the opposite, blacks are announced at 2900mAh vs 1900 for the blue...) so even with a 20,000mAh powerbank, I should get less than you get... Now I see in the specs that this mic also works with 24 V, so I might get a bit more time from the same batteries...

Anyway it quickly adds up to many hours, I even heard other people bragging about 72 hours with their Sony and a powerbank! In my case I managed to listen to all the files while doing something else so far - obviously you can have (some) other activities while listening to crickets and birds sounds - I just stop to log all moments of interest, to work on them later. I could also browse the whole files in Audacity looking at the spectrogram view, I guess it would go much faster, at least when I'm looking for some "rare" events, but then I can't do anything else until it's done!

Interesting, I'm using a pair of Clippys, so 48v phantom power but only 48mHz sampling rate

Yeah finding the time ti go through the files is a challenge! Im years behind!

 

[S_Man]

Interesting, I'm using a pair of Clippys, so 48v phantom power but only 48mHz sampling rate

Yeah finding the time ti go through the files is a challenge! Im years behind!

From my experience higher sampling rate means much less autonomy (at least with the F3)... but in this case I chose 96 mHz for higher frequencies, 120mHz would be perfect...
I just managed to record 11 hours with my small powerbank (4 eneloop) the powerbank was empty, but the F3 was still recording with 2/3 power left on its internal batteries (enough left to listen to 3 hours, then still 1/3). I had set phantom power to 24 V this time, it's a BasicUcho. So not that bad...

 

[CMB]

I had been using rechargeable 2700 mah Maha Powerex AA batteries, and had been getting about four hours of recording. Then the batteries wore out (end of life) and the F3 died in the middle of recording. I missed recording some infrequent birds because I didn’t know the batteries were dying and the F3 was shutting off.

I have switched over to using an external power bank powering the F3 through the USB-C connector. It provides more recording time than I need on field outings so I don’t know how many hours it provides.

It is a good setup, but it does and an extra cable and external device.

When out walking I really like how compact and simple the F3 is using internal AA batteries. Unfortunately these days with so many devices having built-in recheargable batteries (and having USB-C ports thst accept external power) maintaining a recheargeable AA setup is becoming both more limited in use and more expensive.

 

[S_Man]

Anyone tried to disassemble/teardown the F3 yet?

I just want to clean the glass from the inside after a few sessions in wet conditions...

 

[jielkade]

Condensation or rain?

 

[S_Man]

Condensation or rain?

I think condensation. Some tiny drops of rain too, but that was after I noticed the marks. You can't totally prevent humidity outside, and it's supposed to be a field recorder, if I'm correct...

 

[Avetarda]

As an f3 user, the “problem” I have that I don't adapt to is not being able to lower the volume when I'm waiting to record. I like to listen to what I'm recording or what I'm going to record. I know it's because of the 32 b float, I'm used to playing with the gain of other recorders.
Any solution or advice, or change of recorder?

 

[Jon.Bryant]

Any solution or advice, or change of recorder?

There is no gain control on the F3. But this is the rub of 32bit float. Gain settings become unimportant, so why design 32 bit float recorders to have knobs to control gain levels in the field?

If you want to control gain, I would go for a 24bit recorder. There really will be no difference in sound quality, as long as you get the gain settings right. Yes 32bit float has a huge dynamic range, but if gain levels are set right, ambient and mic noise will be an order of magnitude higher than the noise floor, so the huge dynamic range means nothing.

I like 32bit float, but only because I can be lazy and avoid setting gain, and generally don’t even need to monitor (so no sweaty headphones round my neck). Of course occasional avoidance of clipping is a plus, but generally this is not a big risk if you set gain right.

 

[Jon.Bryant]

but in this case I chose 96 mHz for higher frequencies, 120mHz would be perfect...

Not sure I understand why so high? 44.1KHz is CD quality and gives a reasonably rendition of sound up to 20KHz. Most bird vocalise below 10KHz. So surprised why 96 KHz or 120kHz ‘would be perfect’.

It would be interesting to see if you can do a phase inversion experiments to see if you can isolate/visualise the difference between say 48, 96 and 192KHz sampling rates

I do tend to record at 96KHz, but probably more because this seems ‘mid range’, rather than any real noticeable audio improvement. I do however crank down the sample rate if battery life is a concern, particularly when deploying a recorder in the field for a prolonged period.

I am not that versed in PC audio, but I also understand that unless you set up your PC correctly, you may not actually be listening to high res - I think it can be downscaled by the system for playback.

 

[CMB]

As an f3 user, the “problem” I have that I don't adapt to is not being able to lower the volume when I'm waiting to record. I like to listen to what I'm recording or what I'm going to record. I know it's because of the 32 b float, I'm used to playing with the gain of other recorders.
Any solution or advice, or change of recorder?

Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are describing.

The F3 has headphone monitoring volume -/+ buttons next to the headphone jack (oposite side of the device from the XLR jacks). This will lower and raise the volume to the headphones while you are monitoring.

The monitoring is active once the F3 is powered on and headphones are plugged in. You don't need to be recording to monitor audio coming through the mic.

Make the monitoring volume what is comfortable to you as you monitor. Adjusting the monitoring volume won't adjust or affect the recording gain at all. You can adjust the volume of the actual recording (raise or lower to normalize to -3 dB) all sorts of ways in post production editing.

 

[Jon.Bryant]

The F3 has headphone monitoring volume -/+ buttons next to the headphone jack (oposite side of the device from the XLR jacks). This will lower and raise the volume to the headphones while you are monitoring.

Good point. The only thing I would say is that I think knob controls are better for mobile recording. Push button controls seem to me easier to use in a static deployment, when you have the recorder on a tripod.

So whereas you can control headphone volume, given the odd shape of the F3, the limited availability of field bags, the push button controls and the position of the buttons, I don’t think this is a strong point for this device.

There was also something a bit more intuitive to setting monitoring volume at a reasonable level, then changing gain to listen to the recording - too distant, too much gain, too much noise, forget it or move closer. With 32bit float I feel like you now have to have more of a feel of what will work, or as memory is cheap, have a crack and check it in post.

As I generally do not monitor with 32bit float, there are more occasions when I suspect I have bagged a recording, but am disappointed when I check it on the computer.

 

[Avetarda]

¿No estoy seguro de entender por qué tan alto? 44.1KHz es calidad de CD y ofrece una reproducción razonable del sonido de hasta 20KHz. La mayoría de las aves vocalizan por debajo de los 10 KHz. Me sorprende por qué 96 KHz o 120 kHz 'serían perfectos'.

Sería interesante ver si se pueden hacer experimentos de inversión de fase para ver si se puede aislar/visualizar la diferencia entre, por ejemplo, las frecuencias de muestreo de 48, 96 y 192 KHz

Tiendo a grabar a 96 KHz, pero probablemente más porque esto parece un "rango medio", en lugar de una mejora de audio realmente notable. Sin embargo, reduzco la frecuencia de muestreo si la duración de la batería es una preocupación, especialmente cuando se despliega una grabadora en el campo durante un período prolongado.

No estoy tan versado en audio de PC, pero también entiendo que a menos que configure su PC correctamente, es posible que en realidad no esté escuchando alta resolución, creo que el sistema puede reducirlo para su reproducción.

I explained myself poorly, then I tried to edit the post and couldn't. Everything clarified, thank you.

 

[S_Man]

Not sure I understand why so high? 44.1KHz is CD quality and gives a reasonably rendition of sound up to 20KHz. Most bird vocalise below 10KHz. So surprised why 96 KHz or 120kHz ‘would be perfect’.

It would be interesting to see if you can do a phase inversion experiments to see if you can isolate/visualise the difference between say 48, 96 and 192KHz sampling rates

I do tend to record at 96KHz, but probably more because this seems ‘mid range’, rather than any real noticeable audio improvement. I do however crank down the sample rate if battery life is a concern, particularly when deploying a recorder in the field for a prolonged period.

I am not that versed in PC audio, but I also understand that unless you set up your PC correctly, you may not actually be listening to high res - I think it can be downscaled by the system for playback.

I mentioned 120 kHz because I like to check for bats too. I could set it to 192 mHz but the files are huge and after a few nights, it seems that the smaller species need to be really really close to be recorded, so in fact 192 kHz is useless even for this use case.

I should have said "perfect for me"...

For day time I usually record at 48 mHz, which works better for AI (again, in my case), and covers most harmonics, so it looks nicer on spectrograms ;-) of course for many species it's already an overkill...

 

[Jon.Bryant]

I mentioned 120 kHz because I like to check for bats too. I could set it to 192 mHz but the files are huge and after a few nights, it seems that the smaller species need to be really really close to be recorded, so in fact 192 kHz is useless even for this use case.

Interesting. I sometimes see what I think are bats in my recordings, but they are not that high frequency - generally 15-20 Khz.

My mics (and most mics in general) only work up to 20Khz, so even if I record at 192Khz, I don't think the mic can pick up most bat calls.

I have an ultrasonic bat recorder (WildLife Acoustics SM Mini), which I have not used in anger yet. I have added a standard non ultrasonic mic, so I can record both birds and bats (but not both simultaneously - you can alternate, with say 1 hour of each). The bat recorder can be full spectrum, but has a trigger, to avoid the creation of huge files - it records for a few seconds when a bat is detected.

Regarding smaller species needing to be really close, sound attenuates more quickly as frequency increases. In 'The Blind Watchmaker' it talks about how bats have to shout incredibly loud, to get any kind of echo, and have evolved damping on their ears to prevent hearing damage! This damping has to be turned on and off, to cut out the loud shout, but to allow the attenuated faint reflected sound to be detected. Amazing stuff.

But the upshot of this is that many bats are impossible to hear at distance, as their calls are too high pitched and dissipate over only short distances. There are tips to how to set up passive recorders in areas where bats are likely to come close, and I believe one option is at bends in country byways, on the edge of the tree line, but I suppose it depends on the species.

I think it is really hard to use a recorder for bats and birds, as the prime location to set a recorder for a bat and a bird is probably different!

 

[Kashuta Illya]

I have a question about using the recorder as an audio interface for streaming and stuff, is it possible? and if so, what are its nuances?

 

[WRL]

I have a question about using the recorder as an audio interface for streaming and stuff, is it possible? and if so, what are its nuances?