gerdwichers8
Well-known member
Its as the softer part of both feed; we fear a nail going through
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Photohunt in South East Kazakhstan (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Askar Isabekov
- Start date
Mike Johnston
Well-known member
My thoughts exactly!gerdwichers8 said:
Edward woodwood
Member
Eurasian Sparrowhawk
the warbler is probably unidentifiable; Booted and Syke's are both rare in W China, a short distance to the east; Olly has recently been found breeding there... (see below) Blyths is a vagrant, three records i think...
Eastern Olly does reach the Tien Shan and into Xinjiang province, China. These are a more greyish-brown colour with much less wide bill base. The bird shows no signs at all of a pale seconary panel though...
UTcovs look more Hippo than Acro and the tail has a slight roundness to the tip - Olly has a more rounded tip than the other squarer Hippos
Harry has a good argument too. I'd leave it unless there are better pics...
Tim
the warbler is probably unidentifiable; Booted and Syke's are both rare in W China, a short distance to the east; Olly has recently been found breeding there... (see below) Blyths is a vagrant, three records i think...
Eastern Olly does reach the Tien Shan and into Xinjiang province, China. These are a more greyish-brown colour with much less wide bill base. The bird shows no signs at all of a pale seconary panel though...
UTcovs look more Hippo than Acro and the tail has a slight roundness to the tip - Olly has a more rounded tip than the other squarer Hippos
Harry has a good argument too. I'd leave it unless there are better pics...
Tim
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gerdwichers8
Well-known member
My data showed most easterly distribution of Olivacous at a distance of about 500 km of Tien Shan. For Booted Tien Shan showed well in the breeding area.
For the data of Tim on Olly thats obviously the one to follow.
For Booted, Western China shows indeed no presence but for the Tien Shan it does.
Tian Shan is a mountain ridge, seperating Western China and Kazachstan, in the south east. Most of the Tian Shan is situated in China.
For the data of Tim on Olly thats obviously the one to follow.
For Booted, Western China shows indeed no presence but for the Tien Shan it does.
Tian Shan is a mountain ridge, seperating Western China and Kazachstan, in the south east. Most of the Tian Shan is situated in China.
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Jane Turner
Well-known member
Frenchy said:
What did you make of the Indian Hippo/Acro in the thread I mentioned above? At least here we can all hide behind the "insufficent detail in the photo" defence!
Edward woodwood
Member
The Tien Shan range well into western China, terminating at Turpan.
Booteds DO occur in western China, actually in many areas outside the Tien Shan range, such as Juggar basin etc. Sykes' go even further east to the Altai range. Anything saying Booted/Syke's doesn't occur in wesern China is incorrect.
BRW is probably more numerous passing through the area than previously thought, as Paul suggested.
Tim
Booteds DO occur in western China, actually in many areas outside the Tien Shan range, such as Juggar basin etc. Sykes' go even further east to the Altai range. Anything saying Booted/Syke's doesn't occur in wesern China is incorrect.
BRW is probably more numerous passing through the area than previously thought, as Paul suggested.
Tim
Frenchy
Well-known member
Jane Turner said:
Without wishing to drag up the past, i reckon that wblr is a Booted. Although i've only ever seen two Paddyfields, the jizz just looks wrong for it. Just feels like a Booted to me, but hard tosay why. Anyway, back to this bird, and i'm still happy to leave it as unidentified!!! Agree that the undertail coverts look too short for an acro, but again, it just feels like a blyth's to me. But there are some good arguments as to why it isn't one, so i shall argue no further :scribe:
Jane Turner
Well-known member
I reckon that there is a whole array of unidentifiable warblers in Kazakstan, that don't know if they are Acros or Hippos....Sometimes they go to India! Sometimes they confuse members of the rarities committee!
gerdwichers8
Well-known member
Booted Warbler with rounded tails:
http://www.orientalbirdimages.org/s...esult&Bird_ID=1756&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1
and this one looks rounded.
http://nagpurbirds.org/displayimage.php?album=320&pos=1
For the bird in the linked thread of Sumits bird, found the tail hard to justify but to pass the headpattern, bill and contrasting parts in the upperparts and the undertailcoverts.. quiet near by saying yes for Booted.
http://www.orientalbirdimages.org/s...esult&Bird_ID=1756&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1
and this one looks rounded.
http://nagpurbirds.org/displayimage.php?album=320&pos=1
For the bird in the linked thread of Sumits bird, found the tail hard to justify but to pass the headpattern, bill and contrasting parts in the upperparts and the undertailcoverts.. quiet near by saying yes for Booted.
Jane Turner
Well-known member
gerdwichers8 said:
It also doesn't really look like a Booted Warbler to me!
MKinHK
Mike Kilburn
gerdwichers8 said:
How recent is your data for W China?
One of the great things about birding there is that there is so much to discover as it has been so poorly covered.
I was in Xinjiang in 98 and again in 2001 and had the following:
Caligata is not difficult to see in the Altai Shan in far NW Xinjiang
Bei Haba was the place I first saw it.
Rama is more widespread, stretching at least to the Junggur and Turpan Basins (the latter is where I tried to string it for Olivaceous)
and Blyth's Reed is also in the Junggar basin at Ulungur Lake and near Burqin on the Ertix River at the southern edge of the Alati Shan
As I recognize that I'm very much a new boy and unknown quantity on this list it may help to know that Jesper Hornskov has also seen all of these in Xinjiang (leading tours for Ben King et al.) as have several other top HK birders including Paul Leader, who write a great accro paper in the 91 HK bird report.
Tim: where and when was Eastern Olivaceous proven to breed?
Apologies for repeating Tim's info - I soemhow missed that post - although its nice to see we agree!
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MKinHK
Mike Kilburn
This ID nightmare also runs in HK, where both rama and Blyth's have been recorded just a few times.
For those with deply ingrained masochistic tendencies you can have a go at one photographed in Hong Kong earlier this year. The pix are clearer, but even so the views from decent birders ranged from hippo to accro to phyllosc!
Follow the thread for at WWW.hkbws.org.hk and click on page 2 of the Bird Identification section of the BBS (Look for the post dated 22nd June, by Paul Leader). It is entitled "Reposts: warbler ID".
Sorry for not having the technology to link you straight there.
For those with deply ingrained masochistic tendencies you can have a go at one photographed in Hong Kong earlier this year. The pix are clearer, but even so the views from decent birders ranged from hippo to accro to phyllosc!
Follow the thread for at WWW.hkbws.org.hk and click on page 2 of the Bird Identification section of the BBS (Look for the post dated 22nd June, by Paul Leader). It is entitled "Reposts: warbler ID".
Sorry for not having the technology to link you straight there.
Jane Turner
Well-known member
http://nature.hc.edu.tw/vbb/attachment.php?attachmentid=23497&stc=1
Eek
Well it looks more Sykesy than not, say I in a very non-scientific way!
Eek
Well it looks more Sykesy than not, say I in a very non-scientific way!
Hi all,
As pointed out to Jane late one night via text (the bird had been troubling me at home, where I have no net access!), I have a feeling that the Kazakhstan warbler may well be a Blyth's Reed Warbler...but I must add that I have never seen one, nor have I seen Paddyfield or Sykes's, and I've only seen one Booted!
Nevertheless, the combination of short supercilium (only up to the eye as such), pale-ish iris (more like that shown by other Acros (adults) than Hippos, in my experience in life and from pics), plain tertials, a bill that doesn't really seem to suit many other candidates and the 'cocked tail' posture in pic.2 does seem to point towards this, though I wouldn't advocate that it could be identified with absolute certainty from these pics alone!
If I saw this in life, I'd be praying for more prolonged views to nail it!
Regards,
Harry
As pointed out to Jane late one night via text (the bird had been troubling me at home, where I have no net access!), I have a feeling that the Kazakhstan warbler may well be a Blyth's Reed Warbler...but I must add that I have never seen one, nor have I seen Paddyfield or Sykes's, and I've only seen one Booted!
Nevertheless, the combination of short supercilium (only up to the eye as such), pale-ish iris (more like that shown by other Acros (adults) than Hippos, in my experience in life and from pics), plain tertials, a bill that doesn't really seem to suit many other candidates and the 'cocked tail' posture in pic.2 does seem to point towards this, though I wouldn't advocate that it could be identified with absolute certainty from these pics alone!
If I saw this in life, I'd be praying for more prolonged views to nail it!
Regards,
Harry
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JANJ
Well-known member
And the discussion:
http://www.hkbws.org.hk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=BirdingTips;action=display;num=1150545710
JanJ
http://www.hkbws.org.hk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=BirdingTips;action=display;num=1150545710
JanJ
The Hong Kong bird also looks as though Blyth's Reed may be the 'best fit', but I'm even less certain about that one! I could really do with seeing some real Blyth's Reeds...though even this wouldn't make it possible to ID some of the birds on here for sure!
Regards,
Harry
Regards,
Harry
gerdwichers8
Well-known member
As far as it may be of any worth, I measure a bill length of about 14-15 (that is a bit big for Booted but too small for Blyths). For the Hong Kong bird I even get bigger numbers: about 17!
(Note that these measurements are a bit subjective since I have no bird in the hand here.)
(Note that these measurements are a bit subjective since I have no bird in the hand here.)
Mike Johnston
Well-known member
Bill lengths:
Blyth's Warbler - Bill tip to skull: 16.3-18mm (av.17.2mm). Exposed culmen av.12.2mm.
Booted Warbler (caligata) - 13.4-14.5mm (av. 13.9mm). Exposed culmen av.9.9mm.
Syke's Warbler (rama) - 14.8-16.3mm (av.15.5mm). Exposed culmen av.11.1mm.
Wouldn't put too much faith in bill lengths, especially in photos. Blyth's has only an average 1.1mm more exposed culmen than Syke's.
Blyth's Warbler - Bill tip to skull: 16.3-18mm (av.17.2mm). Exposed culmen av.12.2mm.
Booted Warbler (caligata) - 13.4-14.5mm (av. 13.9mm). Exposed culmen av.9.9mm.
Syke's Warbler (rama) - 14.8-16.3mm (av.15.5mm). Exposed culmen av.11.1mm.
Wouldn't put too much faith in bill lengths, especially in photos. Blyth's has only an average 1.1mm more exposed culmen than Syke's.
gerdwichers8
Well-known member
Svensson reads
for Blyths:Tip to first feathering:11.5 to 15
Tip to skull :15.3 to 17.6
for Olivacous:Tip to skull :15.0 to 18.5
for Booted: Tip to skull :12.6 to 15.9
Tip to first feathering:10.0 to 12.8
for Sykes: Tip to skull up to 15.9
for Blyths:Tip to first feathering:11.5 to 15
Tip to skull :15.3 to 17.6
for Olivacous:Tip to skull :15.0 to 18.5
for Booted: Tip to skull :12.6 to 15.9
Tip to first feathering:10.0 to 12.8
for Sykes: Tip to skull up to 15.9
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