gerdwichers8
Well-known member
I get it better with these: Its about 13; Tip to first feathering for the bird in this thread
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Photohunt in South East Kazakhstan (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Askar Isabekov
- Start date
Frenchy
Well-known member
I'm 95% sure the Hong Kong bird is a Blyth's Reed Warbler. Certainly not a phyllosc anyway!!!
One other feature i can often see on Blyth's reeds is the contrast that the whole wing shows with the mantle. The fringes are often warmer in tone than the mantle. I don't think (but could be wrong) that this is shown by the hippos. For me, the original wblr on this thread shows that to a small extent, therefore making it a Blyth's Reed.
One other feature i can often see on Blyth's reeds is the contrast that the whole wing shows with the mantle. The fringes are often warmer in tone than the mantle. I don't think (but could be wrong) that this is shown by the hippos. For me, the original wblr on this thread shows that to a small extent, therefore making it a Blyth's Reed.
gerdwichers8
Well-known member
I think too, that it does not have good secondaries and tertials for Booted (many birds in the net are going to shift on this feature!)
MKinHK
Mike Kilburn
Thanks to Jan & Jane for providing the links.
I will try to learn how to do this as HK has some great photographers and we have loads of palearctic migrants through here.
We have a few groups like skuas which have just been discovered to pass regularly, and the long experience from other parts of the world will I'm sure be invaluable in helping us to sort them out - especially if they start being seen in autumn.
I will try to learn how to do this as HK has some great photographers and we have loads of palearctic migrants through here.
We have a few groups like skuas which have just been discovered to pass regularly, and the long experience from other parts of the world will I'm sure be invaluable in helping us to sort them out - especially if they start being seen in autumn.
JANJ
Well-known member
In pic 3 of the subject bird, it´s seems that the undertail coverts are clearly longer than they would be in a Hippolais, as in the Hong Kong bird, thus more suitable for Acrocephalus. In these pic (the subject) the tail give the impression of being shorter than the impression you get when looking at rama, which also gives the impression of having a thinner bill base, than say, dumetorum and compared to elaeica. Such a dark
bill tip spot on lower mandible as the two first pic of the subject bird (seems to have vanished in pic 3) is not in line with rama, who would have a spot further in from the tip, if any. Maybe the light, but rama would be more whitish underneath. Difficult to get a fair grip on leg colour, on the subject bird, they look rather dark, as they should on dumetorum, the Hong Kong bird on the other hand, have rama coloured legs and feet, but there are some variation.
JanJ
http://www.tarsiger.com/index.php?p...+Sykes%B4s+Warbler%2C+Hippolais+rama&lang=eng
http://www.tarsiger.com/index.php?p...,+Booted+Warbler,+Hippolais+caligata&lang=eng
http://www.tarsiger.com/index.php?p...Reed+Warbler,+Acrocephalus+dumetorum&lang=eng
bill tip spot on lower mandible as the two first pic of the subject bird (seems to have vanished in pic 3) is not in line with rama, who would have a spot further in from the tip, if any. Maybe the light, but rama would be more whitish underneath. Difficult to get a fair grip on leg colour, on the subject bird, they look rather dark, as they should on dumetorum, the Hong Kong bird on the other hand, have rama coloured legs and feet, but there are some variation.
JanJ
http://www.tarsiger.com/index.php?p...+Sykes%B4s+Warbler%2C+Hippolais+rama&lang=eng
http://www.tarsiger.com/index.php?p...,+Booted+Warbler,+Hippolais+caligata&lang=eng
http://www.tarsiger.com/index.php?p...Reed+Warbler,+Acrocephalus+dumetorum&lang=eng
Ghostly Vision
Well-known member
mmm...I've been very wrong before, and am looking at the pics on my terrible laptop screen.
However, the subject bird to me looks like an Acro. The base of the bill simply doesn't look broad enough and the bird appears to have dark lores.
The under tail coverts are ambiguous to my eyes.
Beyond generic identification, don't think we can go any further.
What's all this stuff about bill measurements? Surely that is irrelevant form the photos we have here?
To qualify my experience, I have seen several Booted warblers (between five and ten), lots of Blyth's reed (and other acro's) and no Sykes's.
HTH
GV
However, the subject bird to me looks like an Acro. The base of the bill simply doesn't look broad enough and the bird appears to have dark lores.
The under tail coverts are ambiguous to my eyes.
Beyond generic identification, don't think we can go any further.
What's all this stuff about bill measurements? Surely that is irrelevant form the photos we have here?
To qualify my experience, I have seen several Booted warblers (between five and ten), lots of Blyth's reed (and other acro's) and no Sykes's.
HTH
GV
Askar Isabekov
Well-known member
gerdwichers8
Well-known member
Same here, those wings are a no-go for hippo's. But how different does the tail appear compared in the two new pictures. They seem to be not the same!
hannu
Well-known member
I have studied this case once more very carefully and my opinion is now very clear without any disturbing details. So I "cleaned my table" from previous messages in this thread and I wrote follow conclusion:
The light, the photo angles and photo size makes this case very difficult. But I have to say, that the bird is in fact Blyth's Reed Warbler. I based my opinion to follow view:
(1) This bird seems to be uniform-coloured wing, where has no distinct pale edges or tips (greater covs, tert, wing feathers) and those details separates Blyth's Reed from both Eastern Olivaceous and Sykes's and in addition to Marsh and Reed Warbler.(e.g. pic 2)
(2) In addition to worn Blyth's Reed look almost grey in above, but still darker and more brownish than e.g. Sykes's. Typically Blyth's Reed look greyish-brown above (olive tinge varies according to plumage worn)
This bird fits best to the Blyth's Reed also in this feature (pic 2).
EOW has clearly greyer upperparts and darker flight-feathers. In addition to EOW has pale panel on the secondaries. Sykes's has clearly greyer upperparts also and it usually has very little pale edges in flight-feathers and it has also plainer brown wing. (compare to the photos in links)
-the eye colour is not so dark as it's typically in Hippo. The eye is apparently chestnut-coloured as it should be in dumetorum. (pic 1,2,3)
-the clear-cut pale supercilium restricted in the front of the eye and it continues distinctly to above eye and less distinctly beyond eye as in dumetorum. (pic 1,2,3) Both Hippolais has less distinct supercilium.
Next details are difficult to see surely or they maybe have not any remarkable meaning in id, but I supposed that these details looks as follow:
- p8 (numbered outwards) has at least quite deep emargination (see pic 2)
- Also I think that pale outer web in outer tail feathers should be more visible in pic 3, if the bird would be a Hippo!
- On the average, legs are greyer in EOW and more pinkish in Sykes's. Legs are brown or reddish brown in Blyth's Reed.
-the bird has some dark 'spot' near the tip of lower mandible, which refers mostly to Blyth's Reed. (pic 1,2)
- bird has obviously short primary projection (pic 2)
-the alula is rather difficult to see, but it's possibly a uniform pale outer web and darker inner web. (pic 1)
- short loral stripe, but this does not differ so much in these species (pic 1,2)
- the fork of the tail can due to feather loss.
- compare follow birds in links to my attached photo, which is taken in strong light:
Olivaceous Warbler (Hip pal)
http://www.tarsiger.com/images/JukkaJ/HIPPAL_060628_BUL_JJN_7879.jpg
Sykes's Warbler (Hip ram)
http://www.elisanet.fi/antero.lindholm/public_html/hippo/rama.htm
The light, the photo angles and photo size makes this case very difficult. But I have to say, that the bird is in fact Blyth's Reed Warbler. I based my opinion to follow view:
(1) This bird seems to be uniform-coloured wing, where has no distinct pale edges or tips (greater covs, tert, wing feathers) and those details separates Blyth's Reed from both Eastern Olivaceous and Sykes's and in addition to Marsh and Reed Warbler.(e.g. pic 2)
(2) In addition to worn Blyth's Reed look almost grey in above, but still darker and more brownish than e.g. Sykes's. Typically Blyth's Reed look greyish-brown above (olive tinge varies according to plumage worn)
This bird fits best to the Blyth's Reed also in this feature (pic 2).
EOW has clearly greyer upperparts and darker flight-feathers. In addition to EOW has pale panel on the secondaries. Sykes's has clearly greyer upperparts also and it usually has very little pale edges in flight-feathers and it has also plainer brown wing. (compare to the photos in links)
-the eye colour is not so dark as it's typically in Hippo. The eye is apparently chestnut-coloured as it should be in dumetorum. (pic 1,2,3)
-the clear-cut pale supercilium restricted in the front of the eye and it continues distinctly to above eye and less distinctly beyond eye as in dumetorum. (pic 1,2,3) Both Hippolais has less distinct supercilium.
Next details are difficult to see surely or they maybe have not any remarkable meaning in id, but I supposed that these details looks as follow:
- p8 (numbered outwards) has at least quite deep emargination (see pic 2)
- Also I think that pale outer web in outer tail feathers should be more visible in pic 3, if the bird would be a Hippo!
- On the average, legs are greyer in EOW and more pinkish in Sykes's. Legs are brown or reddish brown in Blyth's Reed.
-the bird has some dark 'spot' near the tip of lower mandible, which refers mostly to Blyth's Reed. (pic 1,2)
- bird has obviously short primary projection (pic 2)
-the alula is rather difficult to see, but it's possibly a uniform pale outer web and darker inner web. (pic 1)
- short loral stripe, but this does not differ so much in these species (pic 1,2)
- the fork of the tail can due to feather loss.
- compare follow birds in links to my attached photo, which is taken in strong light:
Olivaceous Warbler (Hip pal)
http://www.tarsiger.com/images/JukkaJ/HIPPAL_060628_BUL_JJN_7879.jpg
Sykes's Warbler (Hip ram)
http://www.elisanet.fi/antero.lindholm/public_html/hippo/rama.htm
Last edited:
I'm not sure if this will help but I have some footage of similar birds on http://www.aviceda.org/wp/?page_id=22
Please let me know what you think of their ID.
Tom
Please let me know what you think of their ID.
Tom
hannu
Well-known member
Askar have more photos about the Warbler,
which photos are seen in posts #1, #7.
In my mind, those photos confirm my conclusion
that bird is indeed adult Blyth's Reed Warbler (Acrocephalus dumetorum).
You can see e.g. dark spot in lower mandible, two coloured alula,...
Also Warbler in post # 47 is juvenile Blyth's Reed Warbler.
You can see those extra photos in follow link:
http://www.birds.kz/Hippolais rama/index.html
Only Hippo is in the photo series in the end of that web page (5 pics taken in the same day).
which photos are seen in posts #1, #7.
In my mind, those photos confirm my conclusion
that bird is indeed adult Blyth's Reed Warbler (Acrocephalus dumetorum).
You can see e.g. dark spot in lower mandible, two coloured alula,...
Also Warbler in post # 47 is juvenile Blyth's Reed Warbler.
You can see those extra photos in follow link:
http://www.birds.kz/Hippolais rama/index.html
Only Hippo is in the photo series in the end of that web page (5 pics taken in the same day).
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