Rare and Scarce Birds in Staffordshire (6 Viewers)

[The Moore-hen]

I assume this was part of Ian's sweep of the Chase - will be interested to see what details are posted later.

It certainly was! Finally chance to sit down and detail and epic day on the Chase...

Firstly the Crossbills - c20 were at Castle Ring around 09.45 but they quickly flew off before I could get a scope view. I managed to locate the main flock (c40 birds) by tracking several small flocks going over to a patch of larch on the edge of a clear fell. If you look on the attachment the flock were between what is labelled 'horse pasture pools' and 'horse pasture covert' basically in that 'V' of the two tracks that split off by horse pasture pools. If you come in from Upper Longdon (easier track) keep the pool on your right and take the left fork up-hill then look right after about 50-100 yards and on the right side edge of the clear fell is the larches. In amongst the c40 Crossbill are 2-3 Parrot 'types' - big billed, very thick-necked and big bodied, in fact they look like they have no neck as the head and body seem to just merge into one! I had two birds together early pm (1w? male and female type) that flew in with four other birds that looked 'intermediate' in size then myself and Graham Mant had a different? female type at c13.50. The 1w? male was quite distinctive, not just in size, but that it had a noticeable grey 'shawl' around the neck and shoulders - it kind of looked like a Pine Grozzer (if you get what I mean!). They were flushed off twice while I was there, once by a Sprawk, once by a Red Kite (that luckily Graham also saw before anyone thinks I got some acid tabs for Xmas!! :eek! but they kept coming back, so I hope it's a regular haunt. I think a few are going up to look tomorrow, so good luck...:t:

Put it this way - if all these from Budby are Parrot then there are 2-3 up The Chase too...

http://pewit.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/several-more-parrot-crossbills.html

The Diver flew high south or southwest (had to look at compass on i-phone) as I was scanning the top of the larches at Castle Ring...not exactly what I was looking to find 'scanning the top of the larches'...:-O

 

[Phil Andrews]

Many thanks for all your hard leg-work today Ian - this is enough to see me foresaking Upton Warren tomorrow morning :eek!:

 

[The Moore-hen]

Have you a 10 figure Grid ref Ian, you can use wherethepath for this move the curser over sighting area and read grid ref.
http://wtp2.appspot.com/wheresthepath.htm

I couldn't seem to get that to work on my mac (it's probably just me) but they were where the red oval is on this attachment - it's now clear fell with some large larches rather than the 'green mass' on google maps..

 

[The Moore-hen]

Many thanks for all your hard leg-work today Ian - this is enough to see me foresaking Upton Warren tomorrow morning :eek!:

No problem Phil - I was looking for Two-barred but couldn't help but notice these birds! I wouldn't be surprised if the extra coverage uncovers a TBC in the end...and hopefully some photos of these big birds that can be submitted with a 'Parrot-type' description. I did notice that when the birds flew off (although they were flushed by raptors) they headed down into the lower valley (towards the stream that is shown on google maps) - this might be where they are drinking

 

[Phil Andrews]

Based on Ian's map I would estimate a grid ref of SK048137 for the circled area

 

[The Snapper]

8:30-9:00 start for me. Sounds very promising and I hope with a few more of us and maybe some photos will nail them.

Brilliant work by the moorehen. Wish I had been there, but after the Brunnichs twitch, I needed to get a few brownie points back.

 

[Periwinkle]

Just cos I am nice here's a link:

http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?X=404850&Y=313750&A=Y&Z=115

 

[The Snapper]

You're not only nice mr Perrins, you are a beautiful man!

 

[Periwinkle]

I shall see you in the morning!

 

[geoff russon]

Just cos I am nice here's a link:

http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?X=404850&Y=313750&A=Y&Z=115

do you know thats spitting distance from the TBC of the early 1980s.Any one know the best place to park. well done.
gwr

 

[The Moore-hen]

do you know thats spitting distance from the TBC of the early 1980s.Any one know the best place to park. well done.
gwr

I know! Graham pointed out where the TBC was...maybe time for another? I'd park off Startley Lane and walk in that way - the walk downhill from Castle Ring was very muddy and slippery. There were Crossbills in the pines (briefly) and a lovely stand of larch at Castle Ring but also lots of disturbance. Just hope these big-billed birds perform today...my only concern was them feeding in larch and the other Parrots in the country and their preferred food source seems to be Scots or Corsican Pine...only time will tell I guess...

 

[Phil Andrews]

2 possible Parrot Crossbills reported this morning in the same location outlined by Ian yesterday

 

[The Moore-hen]

2 possible Parrot Crossbills reported this morning in the same location outlined by Ian yesterday

Sounds like there were 2 or 3 birds again first thing this morning, probably including the same 2 as yesterday (1w male and female type) with about 50+ Common Crossbill. I think there is no doubt they are 2-3 big birds and an unusual call was also heard early am today, but I think, quite rightly, people are being cautious on putting their (bull) necks on the line with such a difficult species. I think we might have some (record) shots later to peruse and discuss...but we might need a sonogram and giant-billed adult to finally secure the Staffs prize...

 

[The Moore-hen]

Extra News for the 29th Dec

2 Glaucous (ad+Juv), ad Iceland, 2 ad Caspian & ad Med Gull - Chasewater roost
Juv Great Northern Diver - Gailey still on sailing reservoir
Great Grey Shrike - Cannock Chase between cadet huts and rifle range
Fem Velvet Scoter, fem Long-tailed Duck & redhead Smew - Aqualate Mere
2 redhead Smew - Alrewas Pits in NW bay

 

[Steve Nuttall]

Hi all.
Had a full morning up at Upper Longdon to look for Parrot Crossbills. In the end I left more confused. 2 possible candidates were seen that showed to be bigger, bull necked but the bills were not classic. A deep chup chup call was also heard. At the moment I'm not convinced and more hours in the field at this site will be needed to study this flock. At least 54 birds were seen but there could be many more with the flock coming and going. The 2 photo's are of the original male and female seen first thing. The other bird I was showing images of to others on site, I'm happy is not a Parrot.

 

[JHDraytonbassettpits]

Hi all.
Had a full morning up at Upper Longdon to look for Parrot Crossbills. In the end I left more confused. 2 possible candidates were seen that showed to be bigger, bull necked but the bills were not classic. A deep chup chup call was also heard. At the moment I'm not convinced and more hours in the field at this site will be needed to study this flock. At least 54 birds were seen but there could be many more with the flock coming and going. The 2 photo's are of the original male and female seen first thing. The other bird I was showing images of to others on site, I'm happy is not a Parrot.

A bit more reading may help Steve http://www.britishbirds.co.uk/search?model=pdf&id=6311
I note from this article Parrot Crossbill can feed on Larch in the UK but not seen on Norway Spruce, the deep ' tyooop' call is the most diagnostic call given in flight and occaisionally when perched.

 

[The Moore-hen]

Hi all.
Had a full morning up at Upper Longdon to look for Parrot Crossbills. In the end I left more confused. 2 possible candidates were seen that showed to be bigger, bull necked but the bills were not classic. A deep chup chup call was also heard. At the moment I'm not convinced and more hours in the field at this site will be needed to study this flock. At least 54 birds were seen but there could be many more with the flock coming and going. The 2 photo's are of the original male and female seen first thing. The other bird I was showing images of to others on site, I'm happy is not a Parrot.

That's kind of how I felt yesterday evening! I'd done loads of research 'on the net' with the expectation that if I saw a group of Parrots feeding in pines I'd nail them no probs...then I found these feeding with Common's in larch and it wasn't so easy! I'm pretty sure the male in the photo is the same 1w? male I saw yesterday - v.similar plumage and bill shape - not so sure the female is the same bird but difficult to tell from that one photo.

If you look at this link (i put on yesterday too)

http://pewit.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/several-more-parrot-crossbills.html

I thought the Chase 1w? male looked pretty similar to the bird in photo 4 (middle bird) and photo 5 (upper bird) or the third photo from the bottom. I was kind of expecting to see a clear 'bulge' on the lower mandible but didn't on any of the Chase birds - but these don't show it either. The upper mandible is big with the lower mandible also big (but not huge) with no clear 'bulge' - this is what I thought the 1w? male Chase bird looked like. On both the Chase birds yesterday, around midday when they showed best, you could clearly see no overlap of a 'crossed bill' at the tip - the upper mandible drooped over but the lower never crossed above it - I could see this 'crossed bill' clearly on all the birds that were obviously Common's. The call you heard sounds very interesting - I didn't hear anything distinctive myself yesterday unfortunately. Whatever they are they clearly stand out quite easily from the 'flock' - they are either big Common Crossbills with a broad neck or smallish (average even??) continental Parrot-types. I was hoping for a nice easy huge-billed bird with a classic 'bulging' lower mandible but it wasn't to be. The problem is (reading this whole thread)

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=272761

that the whole Crossbill complex is still a learning curve even for the experts - what chance have mere mortals like us got...??

I'm glad I found them and put them out as 'possibles' yesterday so I've started the ball rolling - whatever they turn out to be it's been an interesting learning curve already!

 

[Rob Swift]

That's kind of how I felt yesterday evening! I'd done loads of research 'on the net' with the expectation that if I saw a group of Parrots feeding in pines I'd nail them no probs...then I found these feeding with Common's in larch and it wasn't so easy! I'm pretty sure the male in the photo is the same 1w? male I saw yesterday - v.similar plumage and bill shape - not so sure the female is the same bird but difficult to tell from that one photo.

If you look at this link (i put on yesterday too)

http://pewit.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/several-more-parrot-crossbills.html

I thought the Chase 1w? male looked pretty similar to the bird in photo 4 (middle bird) and photo 5 (upper bird) or the third photo from the bottom. I was kind of expecting to see a clear 'bulge' on the lower mandible but didn't on any of the Chase birds - but these don't show it either. The upper mandible is big with the lower mandible also big (but not huge) with no clear 'bulge' - this is what I thought the 1w? male Chase bird looked like. On both the Chase birds yesterday, around midday when they showed best, you could clearly see no overlap of a 'crossed bill' at the tip - the upper mandible drooped over but the lower never crossed above it - I could see this 'crossed bill' clearly on all the birds that were obviously Common's. The call you heard sounds very interesting - I didn't hear anything distinctive myself yesterday unfortunately. Whatever they are they clearly stand out quite easily from the 'flock' - they are either big Common Crossbills with a broad neck or smallish (average even??) continental Parrot-types. I was hoping for a nice easy huge-billed bird with a classic 'bulging' lower mandible but it wasn't to be. The problem is (reading this whole thread)

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=272761

that the whole Crossbill complex is still a learning curve even for the experts - what chance have mere mortals like us got...??

I'm glad I found them and put them out as 'possibles' yesterday so I've started the ball rolling - whatever they turn out to be it's been an interesting learning curve already!

Hi chaps,
Just seen following the comments on the possible Parrots on the chase.........I've now seen the Notts birds twice, with prolonged views the weekend before last. From the views last time I remember thinking that the two main I.d features I would need to pin down in the future would be the bill.....this was clearly as deep as it was long in the males. The flight call was very distinctive and we described it as 'jangling bells' as the flock flew rather than the chipping call of the Common. The single odd call emitted when feeding in the pines was not dissimilar to Common so would not be reliable as a stand alone I.d feature I think. The feeding method could also be a possible lead in consideration.....the Parrots tended to 'snip off' even large cones at the base and then hold and completely demolish the cone in getting at the seeds. I don't think I've seen Common's do this, they've been more subtle and dextrous in seed removal.

Cheers

Rob

 

[wolfbirder]

Glad it's not just me who is confused especially by bill size. That gives me some commiseration, as I have been disapointed & confused by the appearance of the 18 birds (except maybe 2 or 3) I have seen (Shoeburyness/Budby). Never seen the species previously.

Well done on finding 2 potentials on the Chase though. I would like to have joined you in the search, unfortunately I was away on our wedding anniversary, and her indoors is definitely too bull-necked to argue with -

 

[The Moore-hen]

D

A bit more reading may help Steve http://www.britishbirds.co.uk/search?model=pdf&id=6311
I note from this article Parrot Crossbill can feed on Larch in the UK but not seen on Norway Spruce, the deep ' tyooop' call is the most diagnostic call given in flight and occaisionally when perched.

It is a good read that - and it's Graham's photos of the birds at Budby I've linked too! I was kind of hoping the Chase birds would look like the photos 223 and 231 but in fact they are more like 221 or 222. They certainly haven't got the 'classic' bill bulge but have got a clear bull-necked appearance and large bills. I think we still have a lot to learn...hopefully before they depart! Unfortunately the weather outside doesn't sound like Crossbill hunting weather...