Reasons for house sparrow decline - research (1 Viewer)

[hil5]

It is thought probable that it is the lack of insects for the sparrow chicks particularly for the second brood. Research details:

http://www.rspb.org.uk/action/insectfriendlygardens.asp

"Although we are not sure about the exact causes of the population decline, any measures that boost insect numbers in gardens should help nesting sparrows. Growing deciduous shrubs and trees, leaving patches of unmown long grass and minimising usage of insecticides should all help.'"

I'd aslo recommend supplying live mealworms during the breeding season. You can use a metal feeder cage if larger birds such as starlings are a problem

 

[scampo]

It is thought probable that it is the lack of insects for the sparrow chicks particularly for the second brood. Research details:

http://www.rspb.org.uk/action/insectfriendlygardens.asp

"Although we are not sure about the exact causes of the population decline, any measures that boost insect numbers in gardens should help nesting sparrows. Growing deciduous shrubs and trees, leaving patches of unmown long grass and minimising usage of insecticides should all help.'"

I'd aslo recommend supplying live mealworms during the breeding season. You can use a metal feeder cage if larger birds such as starlings are a problem

Thanks for that - a nearby study to me, too. It's an odd thing indeed and to think how many nests there were under the crook of the drainpipes at eaves' level when I was a kid. Yet, even now, it seems to me that a similar number have a dust bath in my father-in-law's garden each summer -and that's just outside Leicester.

My brother has fitted many communal nextboxes locally and that has proved a success so it could be that shortage of nesting places is of some importance - he seems to think so and has much experience over many years.

I do think that Leicestershire in general is a well sprayed county, though, with a noticeably reduced number of summer insects. Or, it might be the change from livestock to cereals on the farms - too few cowpats around here!

It seems to me that insufficient research is done - we seem to know so little.

It is a mystery.

 

[deborah4]

:cat: :cat: :cat: :cat: :cat: :cat: :flyaway:

 

[citrinella]

I do think that Leicestershire in general is a well sprayed county, though, with a noticeably reduced number of summer insects. Or, it might be the change from livestock to cereals on the farms - too few cowpats around here!

It seems to me that insufficient research is done - we seem to know so little.

It is a mystery.

Did you read the article ? The research was focussed on sub-urban problems, not farmland. Why have there been huge declines in sub-urban populations ? And it is a very good piece of research, every bit as much as can be expected to be funded.

If I ask any of my (older) friends, all agree with me that flies used to be a problem in the summer in the kitchen - every house had fly-paper and a swotter to hand. Now a fly inside is a rarity. The conclusions from this research make sense.

It's not more research that is needed for urban sparrows. It's action by towns people in general to "spice up" their gardens a bit. Through away the "pretty ornamental" in a large part of the garden and let it grow a bit rough, encourage native species. Recent research publicized by RSPB suggested that winter feed might also be a problem, so there is even more need for changes to gardens to provide winter food as well as summer insects.

Yes, farmers need to take action. Farmers are, things are changing. This research is about everybody. Huge numbers of the population have gardens, a little action across those huge numbers would make a lot of difference. No point moaning about farmers and doing nowt.

Yes I am doing this in my own garden. Letting some grass grow rank, planting birch, wild rose, hawthorn, beech, holly, yew. I will admit I'm keeping the thistles in check ! (with a spade, not chemicals).

Mike.

 

[hayfieldgolfer]

.

If I ask any of my (older) friends, all agree with me that flies used to be a problem in the summer in the kitchen - every house had fly-paper and a swotter to hand. Now a fly inside is a rarity. The conclusions from this research make sense.

Mike.

We have loads of sparrows in the garden, we live next to a field which is used to hold cows in transit once or twice a month for a few days at a time. The field to the best of my knowlage is not sprayed and is only harvested (hay) once a year. It never occured to me that the cow pats would be of benefit to our garden birds in suppling insects.

As for the lack of flies, yes I rember as a child far more being arround then. But I think the decline is down to the way we keep then dispose of food.

We also keep our gardens too tidy, we now have a wheeley bin for garden waste, this in turn deprives insects of food and somewhere to live and hide in.

Firstly most food is now kept sealed and refidgerated, then we seal the waste in plastic bags then put them plastic wheeley bins with lids.

As a child food was not brought prepacked from refridgerated shelves, we did not have a refrigerator and the waste food was put into a metal dust bins wrapped in newspaper. After a few weeks the lids on the bins did not fit (dustmen used to bang the bins against the dustcart distorting the sides). In the summer the bins stank! Flies can only breed when they have the wright enviroment.

As with spraying gardens for insects, I do not believe most gardeners spray their garden liberally, I expect very few spray at all. I have a greenhouse and I do spray the plants in there, once or twice a year. Firstly as I use the greenhouse to grow food which I eat, I am very carefull what pestasides I use, as I do not want them in me. Also it is very unlikley that the insects I spray will enter the food chain as I try to keep all wildlife out of the greenhouse, thirdly the time, effort not to say the cost and the effect on the environment its not just worth spraying out in the garden.

If you want more flies leave food out to rot. If you want more insects grow plants that they will come to, to eat or take nectar, and leave plant material in the garden to rot.

 

[scampo]

Did you read the article ? The research was focussed on sub-urban problems, not farmland. Why have there been huge declines in sub-urban populations ? And it is a very good piece of research, every bit as much as can be expected to be funded.

If I ask any of my (older) friends, all agree with me that flies used to be a problem in the summer in the kitchen - every house had fly-paper and a swotter to hand. Now a fly inside is a rarity. The conclusions from this research make sense.

It's not more research that is needed for urban sparrows. It's action by towns people in general to "spice up" their gardens a bit. Through away the "pretty ornamental" in a large part of the garden and let it grow a bit rough, encourage native species. Recent research publicized by RSPB suggested that winter feed might also be a problem, so there is even more need for changes to gardens to provide winter food as well as summer insects.

Yes, farmers need to take action. Farmers are, things are changing. This research is about everybody. Huge numbers of the population have gardens, a little action across those huge numbers would make a lot of difference. No point moaning about farmers and doing nowt.

Yes I am doing this in my own garden. Letting some grass grow rank, planting birch, wild rose, hawthorn, beech, holly, yew. I will admit I'm keeping the thistles in check ! (with a spade, not chemicals).

Mike.

Yes I read it right through. We live in just the area the article discusses. What is clear is that sparrows are far more localised than once they were, but where they are they are still there in reasonable numbers.

I still suspect a combination of spraying farmland and gardens along with the switch from pastureland and cows to arable. I can't think of any other reasons. What surprises me and disappoints me is the lack of research.

The fall in woodland species is another area of concern - I do wonder just how implicated the massive rise in grey squirrel populations can be as these are so prevalent everywhere these days and ceratinly are an egg and chick predator?

 

[snowdragon]

house sparrows have never fully recovered in this area.they seem to be most numerous along a small stream by us,but not on the housing estates where they were once numerous.too much tarmac and concrete now,even the playing field outside our house has been mostly built on.last year i left one half of our garden grass,and have planted with wild flowers grown from seed as a meadow area.wild flower beds have gone in.there is very little work to be done.there was a good increase in insect numbers and types.some i have not seen before.newts and frogs were common amonst the grass.butterflies were a big bonus,especially to find caterpillars.it was the first year skippers were seen in our garden.as for the house sparrow,i would welcome their return in greater numbers.we tend only to get the odd one now and again.

 

[willowa]

We have about 40 house Sparrows living in our garden. We have a wheely bin that is emptied every two weeks. In the summer there are maggots crawling out of the bin... Since we built the pond we get lots more insects. The grass is left long at the edge. We had grass hoppers last year... I dont understand why chemicals are used in the greenhouse. I never get white fly as the spiders eat them. you just have to look before you enter it. I dont like spiders crawling on me. But I like them to keep the pests down. We get slugs in the greenhouse as the door is left open all summer. We have found frogs in there as there is an irrigation system that waters twice a day.
If there are pests the predators will find them it is a matter of ballance.
I think the Sparrows do well here as we have a large pest population. And winter feeding. I grew cabbage last year when the caterpillars had left, the outer leaves were composted and we ate the middle we and the caterpillars were happy.

 

[dandare]

There has been a significant decline in my area over the years, which I believe is in no small part, due to loss of nesting sites.

I have lived in the same village in the welsh valleys all my life. During my bird-nesting childhood in the late fifties and early sixties, there were many disused old buildings and ruins in and around my village that were ideal nesting sites for House Sparrows. In particular, I can well remember the pine-end of one old(smallish)ruin which had lots of holes and cavities in the masonry - there must have been close on a dozen pairs nesting there - there's nothing resembling that here now! Also, there wasn't the money about then that there is today(God, I sound old!), so a lot of the existing housing stock was not kept in great repair - this also provided many nooks and crannies which were ideal for nesting birds.

Over the years many of those old buildings have been demolished, the existing housing stock is much improved and kept in a better state of repair.... great for the local people....not so great for the local House Sparrows.

dan

 

[scampo]

There has been a significant decline in my area over the years, which I believe is in no small part, due to loss of nesting sites.

I have lived in the same village in the welsh valleys all my life. During my bird-nesting childhood in the late fifties and early sixties, there were many disused old buildings and ruins in and around my village that were ideal nesting sites for House Sparrows. In particular, I can well remember the pine-end of one old(smallish)ruin which had lots of holes and cavities in the masonry - there must have been close on a dozen pairs nesting there - there's nothing resembling that here now! Also, there wasn't the money about then that there is today(God, I sound old!), so a lot of the existing housing stock was not kept in great repair - this also provided many nooks and crannies which were ideal for nesting birds.

Over the years many of those old buildings have been demolished, the existing housing stock is much improved and kept in a better state of repair.... great for the local people....not so great for the local House Sparrows.

dan

Sound old? Just a bit less young than I am by the sound of your descriptions (born in '53)! You make good points - everything that was left to the elements in those wonderful heady days of the sixties is now tidied up or built on, it's true. That has to be part of the reason for the decline.

It's sad no one really knows. I thought that kind of information would be the remit of the BTO, RSPB and others. Maybe they are keeping the reason secret!

 

[snowdragon]

its interesting you say that.our housing estate has undergone massive redevelpment over the last few years.looking at the housing there does not appear to be that many suitable nesting sites left.the council are going to be doing the roof soon,so i will be loosing my starling hole above my bedroom window.new buildings have replaced many of the old ones.it may be why the sparrows have become more localised.

 

[hil5]

.the council are going to be doing the roof soon,so i will be loosing my starling hole above my bedroom window.new buildings have replaced many of the old ones.it may be why the sparrows have become more localised.

Starlings will readily take to a nest box (available from RSPB etc). They are fun to watch with a camera inside too.

Probably a number of factors involved in the decline. But this is one of the first in-depth research projects I've read.

 

[scampo]

its interesting you say that.our housing estate has undergone massive redevelpment over the last few years.looking at the housing there does not appear to be that many suitable nesting sites left.the council are going to be doing the roof soon,so i will be loosing my starling hole above my bedroom window.new buildings have replaced many of the old ones.it may be why the sparrows have become more localised.

Your comments make a lot of sense. Maybe we should all put up a communal sparrow box!

 

[citrinella]

It's sad no one really knows. I thought that kind of information would be the remit of the BTO, RSPB and others. Maybe they are keeping the reason secret!

I don't follow you Steve. The research you ask for is published, you say you have read it, why ignore it's conclusions ?

Other folk talk about waste. In China urban sparrows are tree sparrows rather than house. In general they are common. You often see heaps of vegetable waste lying around - with tree sparrows picking them over.

Cheers,
Mike.

 

[Jos Stratford]

In China urban sparrows are tree sparrows rather than house. In general they are common. .

Not only in China, much the same over here in Eastern Europe - whilst there are House Sparrows about, Tree Sparrows are very often the more common of the two, even in the city centre and hopping about the bus station, etc

In my garden, albeit distinctively rural, I have a daily flock of almost 100 Tree Sparrows (yesterday it was 95!) and at feeders I have on a city flat balcony, I get about a dozen Tree Sparrows. I have only ever had one House Sparrow in the garden (about four years ago) and not one at the city feeders yet.

 

[scampo]

I don't follow you Steve. The research you ask for is published, you say you have read it, why ignore it's conclusions ?

Other folk talk about waste. In China urban sparrows are tree sparrows rather than house. In general they are common. You often see heaps of vegetable waste lying around - with tree sparrows picking them over.

Cheers,
Mike.

Sorry. I didn't make myself clear and, to be truthful, neither was I being exactly clear headed.

It just seemed to me to take an awfully long time for such research to be carried out. The demise of various species is a long term issue and it surprises me that we don't put more into determining the reasons behind it. I'd like to see the government funding such research as well as the wildlife charities. Maybe this is going on and it is not publicised.

Another species that needs invertebrates for its young before moving to seeds is the bluetit and that can have population falls if the quantity of invertebrates falls at a crucial time - but it always seems to recover as, presumably, it produces so many young in good years. I still see plenty of bluetits around and wonder why they have survived when the house sparrow has not - the sparrow lays many eggs, too, so one would think it capable of holding its own.

 

[Terry O'Nolley]

Can't you guys just fill up a container ship with our House Sparrows and take them back? Please?

 

[scampo]

Can't you guys just fill up a container ship with our House Sparrows and take them back? Please?

Nice one! A friend who keeps a close count of the birds he sees (and has been doing since 1948) only wishes now he had counted up the house sparows. Times change - and sometimes quickly.

 

[citrinella]

Nice one! A friend who keeps a close count of the birds he sees (and has been doing since 1948) only wishes now he had counted up the house sparows. Times change - and sometimes quickly.

Hi Steve,

An older ringer friend of mine recalls that the BTO used to surcharge for all rings put on sparrows. They were so abundant they weren't of interest - their situation was "secure". They used to catch hundreds, would remove everything else from the nets then gently open the pockets and free all the house sparrows. Now we know better. Many ringers spend a lot of effort on blue tits - despite the fact that they are pecky wee brutes and involve a disproportionate amount of work. Anything could suffer the "house sparrow effect".

Yes we were slow to do research on house sparrows. It's too late to ask why, and the answer would probably be impossibly complex. What matters is that we are more alert in future.

In another post you talket about Government funding.

Well, there is quite a lot - direct and indirect. For instance Kate Vincent's PhD had to be supported by the University to some extent. JNCC also contributes directly.

I am a little wary about too much Government funding. It is too subject to political whim. I work in medical research support. Several years ago the main funding body - the Medical Research Council - more or less stopped funding while a "review" was conducted. IIRC that took over a year. Highly rated proposals were rejected for funding simply because of the funding review. The gap in funding at many major research institutes caused chaos.

I am also a farmer - heavily subsidised by the government. Agricultural subsidies have and continue to destroy the farming industry, world wide. I am certain they are also a major contributor to famine and poverty throughout the third world. What the subsidies have achieved is cheap, reliable, food supplies, at the expense of farm profitability and the environment. Effectively, this reinforces the wealth gap between rural and urban populations (why I work in medical research). So I am pretty wary of government funding.

Mike.

 

[hil5]

Another species that needs invertebrates for its young before moving to seeds is the bluetit and that can have population falls if the quantity of invertebrates falls at a crucial time - but it always seems to recover as, presumably, it produces so many young in good years. I still see plenty of bluetits around and wonder why they have survived when the house sparrow has not - the sparrow lays many eggs, too, so one would think it capable of holding its own.

Tits only lay one, large brood and it seems insects are not a problem for the first sparrow brood. It is the later second and third broods when problems arise. The sparrow does not lay as many eggs in one go as the blue tit and needs its 2-3 broods to keep its population stable.

It could also be different insects needed. I believe blue tits concentrate on caterpillars on trees.