Recording noc-mig direct to laptop (1 Viewer)

[Col1]

Hi Folks,
Keen to explore potential for simple noc-mig set-up, using a mono Smart Clippy EM272 (with appropriate foam and wind-jammer) connected to laptop and recording directly to Audacity for subsequent analysis - would that work or would I need a pre-amp to boost signal in any way? I'm aware that I could use a USB mic such as the Marantz MPM1000 but from my limited understanding the EM272 is a more sensitive option?
TIA for any advice or alternatives,
Col

 

[Mono]

If your laptop has a mic in, or a composite input for a mic/headset, then you should be fine. If not then you will need some sort of adapter. But a straight pre-amp will only be of use if your laptop has a line in, otherwise you will need a USB sound card.

 

[Col1]

If your laptop has a mic in, or a composite input for a mic/headset, then you should be fine. If not then you will need some sort of adapter. But a straight pre-amp will only be of use if your laptop has a line in, otherwise you will need a USB sound card.

Thanks Mono - the laptop has a composite input, thanks for confirming all should be OK!!

 

[Jon.Bryant]

I'm aware that I could use a USB mic such as the Marantz MPM1000 but from my limited understanding the EM272 is a more sensitive option?

Making things complicated, but the computer mic input must also provide Plug-in-Power - I am pretty sure that it will do this. PiP is not an absolute standard - I have recorders that provide 2.5V and others that can provide 5.0V. I believe that the standard allows voltages in the range of 1-10V. The mic will also have a rated bias voltage. If the PiP voltage is lower than the rated voltage, there is likely to be a reduction in the sensitivity of the mic. I believe that the EM272 needs 2.26V, so fairly low, so fingers crossed the mic will work as intended.

The EM272 is definitely more sensitive that the Marantz MPM1000. The published sensitivities are -28 dB ± 3 dB at 1 kHz and -38 dB ±2dB (0 dB = 1 V/Pa @ 1 kHz) respectively. With these figures the smaller the value the more sensitive the mic. Even if you compared the worst EM272 (-23-3dB = -26dB) with the best MPM1000 (-38+2dB = -36dB), the difference is 10dB - As 3dB is roughly a doubling of sound intensity, I think this means the EM272 is over 8 times more sensitive! Yes these sensitivities are measured at 1,000KHz (lower than most bird vocals), but also both mics have fairly flat frequency responses, so I can't see why the same does not hold true for the range of most bird vocals.

The MPM1000 does really look like it is meant to be used on a desk in front of the user, so the low sensitivity is not to be unexpected.

You can order the EM272 with different cable lengths, and as long as you don't go too stupid, I don't think it will have an impact on performance. May be best to get a few meters of cable, so you don't have to place the computer on the window sill.

 

[Col1]

Making things complicated, but the computer mic input must also provide Plug-in-Power - I am pretty sure that it will do this. PiP is not an absolute standard - I have recorders that provide 2.5V and others that can provide 5.0V. I believe that the standard allows voltages in the range of 1-10V. The mic will also have a rated bias voltage. If the PiP voltage is lower than the rated voltage, there is likely to be a reduction in the sensitivity of the mic. I believe that the EM272 needs 2.26V, so fairly low, so fingers crossed the mic will work as intended.

The EM272 is definitely more sensitive that the Marantz MPM1000. The published sensitivities are -28 dB ± 3 dB at 1 kHz and -38 dB ±2dB (0 dB = 1 V/Pa @ 1 kHz) respectively. With these figures the smaller the value the more sensitive the mic. Even if you compared the worst EM272 (-23-3dB = -26dB) with the best MPM1000 (-38+2dB = -36dB), the difference is 10dB - As 3dB is roughly a doubling of sound intensity, I think this means the EM272 is over 8 times more sensitive! Yes these sensitivities are measured at 1,000KHz (lower than most bird vocals), but also both mics have fairly flat frequency responses, so I can't see why the same does not hold true for the range of most bird vocals.

The MPM1000 does really look like it is meant to be used on a desk in front of the user, so the low sensitivity is not to be unexpected.

You can order the EM272 with different cable lengths, and as long as you don't go too stupid, I don't think it will have an impact on performance. May be best to get a few meters of cable, so you don't have to place the computer on the window sill.

Hi Jon, thanks for the input - I was wondering about PiP. The laptop is a new Dell Latitude - I've not found anything definitive in terms of any details on what voltage that the mic input provides - guess it's a case of plugging it in and see what happens!
On deployment nights I was planning on temporarily attaching the mic to the top of a c2m removable post, itself attached to side of office so total length may be in region of c5m - I'm hoping that should be OK, but I'll check with MicBooster for their thoughts on that length of cable....

 

[Jon.Bryant]

On deployment nights I was planning on temporarily attaching the mic to the top of a c2m removable post

Are you looking to check the forecast and only deploy when suitable?

A bumblebee cover will protect against some wind, but my main concern would be rain. I don’t think the EM272 foam or bumblebee covers really make the mic fully weatherproof.

I have previously used the Wildlife Acoustics SM4 with their proprietary external mic mounted on the roof of the house. This works well, but is a relatively expensive set up. This mic is weathertight (but the mic should be pointed below horizontal - the mic is omni, so this makes no difference to the recording volume). This isn’t recording direct to a computer, but the SM4 has two card slots so bags of capacity…

Even with this setup they advise never to squeeze the foam cover while on the mic, if it is wet, as I think you can squeeze water into the mic. I assume this guidance would also apply to a foam cover on the EM272.

… I have however, given up Nocmigging for a while. I was finding it far too time consuming to go through nocmig recordings (perhaps setting up the BirdNet NN on my computer would automate this process to some degree - see other threads in this forum). The other problems were not enough migrants where I live (lots of boring silent recordings) and when I did get something, struggling with the ID. I feel I am OK with bird vocals, but somehow working on sound files means the everything is out of context - I remember even struggling with my first migrant moorhen! Hopefully the new guide to European night migrants, due this summer will help all nocmiggers struggling with ID.

 

[Col1]

Are you looking to check the forecast and only deploy when suitable?

A bumblebee cover will protect against some wind, but my main concern would be rain. I don’t think the EM272 foam or bumblebee covers really make the mic fully weatherproof.

I have previously used the Wildlife Acoustics SM4 with their proprietary external mic mounted on the roof of the house. This works well, but is a relatively expensive set up. This mic is weathertight (but the mic should be pointed below horizontal - the mic is omni, so this makes no difference to the recording volume). This isn’t recording direct to a computer, but the SM4 has two card slots so bags of capacity…

Even with this setup they advise never to squeeze the foam cover while on the mic, if it is wet, as I think you can squeeze water into the mic. I assume this guidance would also apply to a foam cover on the EM272.

… I have however, given up Nocmigging for a while. I was finding it far too time consuming to go through nocmig recordings (perhaps setting up the BirdNet NN on my computer would automate this process to some degree - see other threads in this forum). The other problems were not enough migrants where I live (lots of boring silent recordings) and when I did get something, struggling with the ID. I feel I am OK with bird vocals, but somehow working on sound files means the everything is out of context - I remember even struggling with my first migrant moorhen! Hopefully the new guide to European night migrants, due this summer will help all nocmiggers struggling with ID.

Yes, I was planning on only deploying on suitable weather nights. This is very much a trial exercise to see if i) levels of noc-mig warrant further investigation, and ii) availability of time to undertake analysis.

 

[Vollmeise]

Thanks Mono - the laptop has a composite input, thanks for confirming all should be OK!!

@Col1: when buying a mic to be used with the composite input (headphones / mic), be sure Your mic has a TRRS-jack (tip/ring/ring/sleeve). TRS microphones will not produce any sound from your composite input due to the different pin assignment.

 

[Vollmeise]

If you can handle a soldering iron, get yourself some PUI Electronics AOM5024L omnidirectional microphone capsules and TRRS connectors with soldering tabs.

Equipped with shrink tubing and a funnel, these DIY microphones, pointing downwards, can withstand continuous rain and deliver excellent sound quality with higher sensitivity than the well-known EM 272.