Redpolls (1 Viewer)

[Richard Klim]

Lesser Redpoll

They appear to have treated the Alps / Carpathians redpolls as flammea, not cabaret...

Surprising, given that numerous mainstream sources make the continental distribution of cabaret very clear.

Knox et al 2001 includes a useful account of the geographical distribution (p264).

 

[Nutcracker]

Statius Müller just gives 'Europa' for the type locality of Fringilla cabaret. Has it been narrowed to any particular locality by subsequent revisers? As Statius Müller was German, I'd assume likely somewhere in Germany.

 

[Richard Klim]

Lesser Redpoll

Statius Müller just gives 'Europa' for the type locality of Fringilla cabaret. Has it been narrowed to any particular locality by subsequent revisers?

Howell et al 1968 (Peters) also gives the type locality as simply 'Europe'.

 

[mb1848]

Type location of cabaret. Statius Muller refers to Buffon. Buffon states that it is rare in France and Germany. Hartert in Die Vogel der Palaarktisch refers to this, limiting Europe??? Buffon refers to Brisson and D'aubuton. Here is Brisson. https://books.google.com/books?id=n...+linotte+ou+le+cabaret"&source=gbs_navlinks_s . Page 142. Confusion with Twite!

 

[Peter Kovalik]

Mason & Taylor (in press). Differentially expressed genes match bill morphology and plumage despite largely undifferentiated genomes in a Holarctic songbird. Mol Ecol. [abstract] [supp info]

TiF Update May 11
Redpolls: Mason and Taylor's detailed study using SNP's (2015) found little genetic differentiation among the redpolls. At this point the balance of the evidence is that there is only one species involved. As a result, I've lumped them all as a single species, Holarctic Redpoll, Acanthis flammea. I thought about referring to them as just “Redpolls”, but added the adjective Holarctic to emphasize that all races have been grouped together.

 

[Nutcracker]

... Holarctic Redpoll, ...

Eeew :-@

 

[DLane]

I thought about referring to them as just “Redpolls”, but added the adjective Holarctic to emphasize that all races have been grouped together.

And, coincidentally, the New Zealand populations are probably the first that will truly speciate

 

[Ben Wielstra]

Jan T. Lifjeld
When taxonomy meets genomics: lessons from a common songbird
Molecular Ecology Volume 24, Issue 12, pages 2901–2903, June 2015
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/mec.13244/abstract?campaign=woletoc

 

[richardm]

Here:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/mec.13244/full#mec13244-bib-0010
ends with "That is a comfort for avian taxonomy"
It might just as easily have ended "That is a discomfort for ornithology"
There may need to be a lot of condensing of modern splits that rely on geography and phenotypic traits

 

[Richard Klim]

Mason & Taylor 2015

Mason & Taylor (in press). Differentially expressed genes match bill morphology and plumage despite largely undifferentiated genomes in a Holarctic songbird. Mol Ecol. [abstract] [pdf]

(Mason & Taylor 2015. Mol Ecol 24(12): 3009–3025.)

David Ringer, 10,000 Birds, 14 Jun 2015: Enjoy your redpoll ticks while they last.

 

[jurek]

David Ringer, 10,000 Birds, 14 Jun 2015: Enjoy your redpoll ticks while they last.

Interesting point that Mr Sangster 'scientific' criteria of separating species don't match biological reality.

 

[Richard Klim]

Lesser Redpoll

Martin Garner, Birding Frontiers, 24 Sep 2015: Lesser Redpoll identification – WINTER is Coming!

 

[George Sangster]

Interesting point that Mr Sangster 'scientific' criteria of separating species don't match biological reality.

That is a bold statement based on a blog post that didn't even mention me or the taxonomic criteria I and many other professional taxonomists use.

FYI: Remsen criticised BirdLife's criteria, and I fully agree with Remsen that their criteria are deeply flawed. He also questioned Lifjeld's comments in Mol. Ecol. about genomics guiding species delimitation. Again, I agree with Remsen that we don't know enough to make wholesale taxonomic changes based on genome scans alone (e.g. RADseq).

 

[Richard Klim]

Greenland & Lesser Redpolls

Martin Garner, Birding Frontiers, 6 Oct 2015: Greenland and Lesser Redpoll.

 

[Richard Klim]

Greenland Redpoll

Martin Garner, Birding Frontiers, 17 Nov 2015: Greenland Redpolls calls.

 

[Richard Klim]

islandica

Amouret, Steinauer, Hallgrimsson & Pálsson (in press). Evolutionary status of Icelandic Redpolls Carduelis flammea islandica (Aves, Passeriformes, Fringillidae). J Ornithol. [abstract & preview]

Amouret et al 2015. J Ornithol 156(4): 1035–1048. [pdf]

Amouret, Hallgrimsson, Kolbeinsson & Pálsson (in press). Morphological differentiation of Icelandic Redpolls, Acanthis flammea islandica. Bird Study. [abstract]

 

[l_raty]

Amouret, Hallgrimsson, Kolbeinsson & Pálsson (in press). Morphological differentiation of Icelandic Redpolls, Acanthis flammea islandica. Bird Study. [abstract]

[pdf]

 

[Larry Lade]

I enjoyed seeing the Hoary Redpolls (at present, I presume, Acanthis hornemanni) I saw up in the Sax-Zim bog up in Minnesota and will continue to keep them on the "life list" regardless of what the "powers that be" decide to do with their "lumping & splitting". Things continue to change and change back and change again. "To each his own!"

 

[Kratter]

I enjoyed seeing the Hoary Redpolls (at present, I presume, Acanthis hornemanni) I saw up in the Sax-Zim bog up in Minnesota and will continue to keep them on the "life list" regardless of what the "powers that be" decide to do with their "lumping & splitting". Things continue to change and change back and change again. "To each his own!"

That's fine, as long as you are not counting the splits --- The powers that be.8-P

 

[Richard Klim]

I enjoyed seeing the Hoary Redpolls (at present, I presume, Acanthis hornemanni) I saw up in the Sax-Zim bog up in Minnesota and will continue to keep them on the "life list" regardless of what the "powers that be" decide to do with their "lumping & splitting". Things continue to change and change back and change again. "To each his own!"

Larry, this thread includes several links to blogposts by Martin Garner, who sadly died on Friday (29 Jan). As always evident from his enthusiasm for the subtleties of redpoll identification, bird forms can be interesting and challenging irrespective of their taxonomic treatment!