Redstart subspecies or hybrid? Central Lithuania. (1 Viewer)

[Armandas_N.]

Today friends of my photographed female Redstart with a lot of white on wing. Maybe possible ssp. samamisicus ?

Any thoughts appreciated!

 

[birdboybowley]

Looks good to me for female Ehrenberg's (or ssp samamisicus if you don't split them!)

 

[stevo]

As above.

Steve.

 

[gerrywestdean]

This looks like a Black Redstart to me.

The throat of C Redstart is nomally paler than the chest and the belly should also be paler than the chest. The underparts of Black Redstart are normally concolourous as in the pictures.

C Redstart should show a faint dark malar stripe.

The females and juvs of eastern race Black Redstarts are browner than those that we are familiar with in W Europe and I wonder if it is one of them.

 

[birdboybowley]

BR fems never show pale patch on the wing like this bird. Can't see anyhting that dissuades me from fem Ehrenberg's

 

[screaming piha]

How are you ageing and sexing this bird Adam?

 

[birdboybowley]

I probably should've typed 'fem-type' I guess but I'd've thought if it was a 1styr male there would be some darker feathers around the face by now....the pale edging also seems quite extensive and fresh-looking and a couple of the gc's look pointed to me so I'd say a 1styr fem

 

[Brian J Small]

Black Redstart, not samamisicus Redstart, IMHO

http://www.wildechoes.org/joomla/images/stories/Bird_Photos/Black Redstart AB_16092007_159.jpg

Brian S

 

[birdboybowley]

Still looks Common to me....can't see any BR looking this brown

 

[Cortonbirds]

1st win male Black Redstart for me. There was a bird at Ness Point, Lowestoft today looking almost identical to the second picture (the first picture looks paler tho). The Ness point bird looked paler than even Brians posted picture...Black Redstart for me.

 

[birdboybowley]

Still never recall seeing a 1styr BR with patches on the wing that obvious - ever

 

[Cortonbirds]

As I said, I do..about 6 hours ago...

 

[birdboybowley]

:-O Don't ya love photo id threads sometimes!

 

[rockfowl]

Sorry Ads, another vote for Black.

 

[birdboybowley]

Well I knew you'd say the opposite to me anyway

 

[Tideliner]

Looking in BWP both male black redstart and redstart , ssp samamisicus are shown with a strong pale wing pannel. While i agree it looks like a female , but this has been a very unsettled summer and some species bred very late so a immature male cant be ruled out.

Black redstart for me.

 

[KenM]

If the 1st image is more cosmetically representative/accurate of the actual bird, (perhaps the OP could confirm this?). It appears to look almost peachy washed on the underparts?..I've never seen a 1st Winter/fem/mle. BR looking this clean on the underparts..thus from a first impression I believe it looks more samamisicus than ochruros. That said...being shot on a hand rail and a 'rock' it might just favour BR over CR?

 

[Armandas_N.]

Both photos are not edited crops. First is converted from RAW with default settings.

 

[screaming piha]

In my experience young Black Redstart (presumably males) often shows wings like this bird. The warm tone could easily be a white balance or light issue.

This bird was at Bempton 10 days ago: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jjbirder/6255340219/

 

[CAU]

I wonder if it might not be an eastern (phoenicuroides/rufiventris) Black Redstart. Females often show a reddish wash to the underparts:
http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?p=11&Bird_ID=2596&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1
http://tarsiger.com/gallery/index.php?pic_id=annika1278004135&lang=eng

During the last few days no less than three presumed ones have been reported from Sweden (all 1cy males), so there seems to be some sort of influx going on:
http://artportalen.se/birds/gallery_imageinfo.asp?imageid=346998
http://artportalen.se/birds/gallery_imageinfo.asp?imageid=348223
http://artportalen.se/birds/gallery_imageinfo.asp?imageid=348011
http://artportalen.se/birds/gallery_imageinfo.asp?imageid=348034
http://artportalen.se/birds/gallery_imageinfo.asp?imageid=347999
http://artportalen.se/birds/gallery_imageinfo.asp?imageid=348429

I have now idea whether females are identifiable or not.