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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Relations of Crossbils (3 Viewers)

Thank You all for interesting information. To make things simple, here's how to identify Loxias:
-if it is in Pinus, then L. pytyopsittacus.
-if it is in Picea, then L. curvirostra.
-if it is in Larix, then L.leucoptera.
;)
Some serious ornithologists really apply that.
 
Karwin said:
Thank You all for interesting information. To make things simple, here's how to identify Loxias:
-if it is in Pinus, then L. pytyopsittacus.
-if it is in Picea, then L. curvirostra.
-if it is in Larix, then L. leucoptera.
;)
Some serious ornithologists really apply that.
Hi Karwin,

That probably works reasonably well, IF all three genera have a good crop of cones on at the same time.

Of course, quite often one or another of them won't have a good crop, then the associated crossbill has to look elsewhere and uses the "wrong" conifer

Michael
 
Hal said:
Hi Michael,

Am I ever glad you're keeping up on all this! Nice to find the expertise is available.
Must have had a "senior moment" as my son calls it. I Completely forgot the AOU had split off L. megaplaga. Also seem to remember, somewhat hazily, about talk regarding merging or splitting another Caribean WW/T-b race (Antilles?).

Seven Taxa for Red Crossbills over here? Thats it, I have enough trouble with the four in Canada, got a headache, going to bed, probably dream about crossbills for weeks!

Hal
Hi Hal,

I'm not aware of any crossbills in the Caribbean other than on Hispaniola, other than vagrant Red. Can you dig up any more info?

Checked up, there's also an 8th American taxon of Red in Central America, the studies that discuss the 7 didn't include Central America in their study. It is another moderately thick-billed pine-feeding taxon (on Pinus maximinoi and related pines).

Michael
 
-if it is in Pinus, then L. pytyopsittacus.
-if it is in Picea, then L. curvirostra.
-if it is in Larix, then L. leucoptera.

Oh no, I find ID'ing birds already difficult enough, now I have additionally to start ID'ing trees??? :eek!:

Peter
 
A 'type C call' bird, i.e., that to which the name Scottish Crossbill is given, was tape recorded & sonagram analysed a couple of years ago in Kielder Forest, Northumbs. Not sure if our county records cttee have done anything with it yet!

Michael[/QUOTE]

Hi Michael,
A couple of years ago a very good birder in Lothian phoned me up to say that he had some xbills with very large bills in the area.
He was pretty sure that they werent Common,s but at the same time didnt think they were Parrot,s either.
So clearly there needs to be a lot of work undertaken with sonograms in a lot of areas yet to try and get a fuller picture.
I seem to remember that Scottish Xbill was also recorded from Derbyshire once, though I may be wrong !
As for your records commitee Im sure there all perplexed and confused with ANGRY WILLIAMS as everbody else is on this issue.
 
Hi Michael,

I have personal records of three birds seen in Jamaica [Jan 06, 1971 (1), & Jan 13, 1971 (2)]. I do know there was quite an invasion around that time. I believe there were a total of 100 birds accounted for. They didn't appear to match any WW I'd ever seen. They were very green, only a faint hint of red about the head, and quite a small bill. For a moment I thought the first one was a tiny parrot. I wasn't expecting to see crossbills in Jamaica. They were apparently brought in by a hurricane by way of the Southern Antilles (eye passed over Martinique), it was skimming the S.A. coast heading for Nicaragua, but turned north half way between Aruba & Old Providence. Nobody could see how they ended up in the storm unless it picked up a flock of northern migrants, but that seemed highly unlikely. They weren't from Hispaniola, that's for certain. It was pure conjecture that there was a possibly Antillean race, based on the storm track. The only printed reference I've ever seen was by James Bond in the Peterson Guide, "Birds of The West Indies".

It has been brought up and discussed at a few birder's get togethers with no concensus reached. The general feeling has been that deforestation was going to doom any any suitable crossbill habitat on the smaller Caribean Islands. As of 2004 they appear to have been right!

In those days the Jamaicans, or someone, would have taken specimens. I think I remember seeing a Jamaican specimen at the Museum of Nature here in Ottawa, or at the Royal Ontario Museum in Toronto. Can't remember the dates though. I'll ask around & see if anybody knows any more about it. I believe that all the Antilles were completely re-surveyed over the past 30 years, so I doubt they would have been missed. Never Know, stranger things have happened in the birding world.

Thanks for the new Taxa of RC in Central America. Just what I need, another one! Wwho knows? Maybe there are WWs hiding out in the highlands of Venezuela or Columbia.

I'll keep in touch with any results.

Hal
 
Hi Hal,

Interesting thanks! There's no native pines (or other conifers) on the Antilles or Jamaica, but there will be pine plantations (most likely Pinus caribaea and P. hondurensis; often planted following deforestation of native trees), so it is possible that crossbills from Hispaniola might have colonised there at some time in the past, then to get moved again by that hurricane.

The only native cone-producing conifers in the Caribbean are all pines, Pinus tropicalis (western Cuba), Pinus caribaea (western Cuba, Bahamas), Pinus occidentalis (Hispaniola) and Pinus cubensis (Sierra Maestra, eastern Cuba); then Pinus hondurensis in lowland Central America (Belize to Nicaragua; east coast) and 4 others in upland Central America (P. maximinoi, P. oocarpa, P. tecunumanii, P. apulcensis, the last 3 being much too tough for crossbills).

Michael
 
Hi Jake,

They're certainly all different; the difficult thing is to say what level of difference applies! Either they are all different species, or else they are all different races of one species. Which - well, at the moment, your guess is as good as mine! - we'll know more when you've finished your PhD on them :D

Michael
 
Michael Frankis said:
Hi Jake,

They're certainly all different; the difficult thing is to say what level of difference applies! Either they are all different species, or else they are all different races of one species. Which - well, at the moment, your guess is as good as mine! - we'll know more when you've finished your PhD on them :D

Michael


It's in the making, 30% done, I'll post it if I get chance and it is not too big... :eat:
 
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