Request for information on thermal imagers. (1 Viewer)

[Andy Lakin]

Alk very interesting stuff. I'm thinking a lot of local records will be smashed with increased use of these such as at Long Eared Owl roosts with the odd burd "invisible" to traditional optics. Does anybody know how much (roughly) being able to take photos/ video adds to the price and can you get a cheaper model from the same manufacturer with the same image quality without this facility.
Cheers Andy

 

[Mysticete]

Yes that's what I am saying in the last sentence! The people you heard doing it in Costa Rica may have been me, I think I wrote about exactly that

Whoops...focused on the wrong part of your reply!

 

[Mysticete]

Alk very interesting stuff. I'm thinking a lot of local records will be smashed with increased use of these such as at Long Eared Owl roosts with the odd burd "invisible" to traditional optics. Does anybody know how much (roughly) being able to take photos/ video adds to the price and can you get a cheaper model from the same manufacturer with the same image quality without this facility.
Cheers Andy

Oh yeah...I am just imagining how useful this would be to locate Saw-whet Owls locally.

 

[pppppvvvv]

Well this thermaling for birds during the day must be a specifically UK thing, mainly due to the specifically UK weather Thermals are pretty much useless when Sun is shining, because that creates more contrast than living animals. A forest through which Sun shines is a kaleidoscope, there is nothing to see. Also one look into the Sun with the scope and it's probably fried? That having said, it has been of enormous help to us in tropical rainforest on cloudy days. Literally changes the game.

I don't recall using it in a heatwave, but any typical cloudy morning, it's fine.
Even if there is a tapestry of heated leaves, twigs, and moss etc, you can still make out an animal in many cases.

One thing I have found to be totally useless, is looking up into trees. Once there is a percentage of sky involved, mine is useless.. the sky is cold, the trees are hot, and I can't make out any animals up there.
Don't know if others have a workaround, or imagers that cope any better?

It's almost like I need to calibrate at ground level, then point it into the treetops

 

[opisska]

"Typical cloudy morning" - that's what I was sayin', UK weather

My Pulsar has the same problem with sky, it dynamically adjusts the range and one I am seeing sky, it's useless. This is probably because a universal scale wouldn't work, but the feature of locking the scale on something until unlocked would be probably really useful.

 

[Amadeus1756]

@edenwatcher That photo of the woodcock is amazing. Can you give an indication as to roughly where that was taken (if you don't want to give specifics for whatever reason)?

 

[VonMaunder]

The Leupold LTO Tracker was the one I'd looked at for a while, guess I missed out, no longer available. Made in the US, Aluminum body, best imager size for price at 320X240 no video AND user replaceable batteries. A good thing gone, maybe it will reappear??

Leupold LTO-Tracker HD Thermal Imaging Monocular 6x Digital Zoom 25 Hz

FeaturesAluminum housingCompact, lightweight design6x digital zoomFull circle display8 thermal palettesWaterproofCompact and light enough to take on...

www.midwayusa.com

 

[edenwatcher]

@edenwatcher That photo of the woodcock is amazing. Can you give an indication as to roughly where that was taken (if you don't want to give specifics for whatever reason)?

Just local woodland about 100m from my house. There are woodcock in this area most winters

Rob

 

[starforgedape]

Good day, has anyone tried the Axion 2 XQ35 Pro? Was thinking of using it for spotting nightjars or owls...

​

 

[Amadeus1756]

I have the Pulsar axion key xm22. ~£1000, when I bought it.
It is amazing, it would feel very strange going out birding without it nowadays.

I get most use in daylight hours. I'm not sure any living creature evades me nowadays, which can take away a bit of the fun , the challenge definitely isn't the same!

I'm pretty sure we should be looking at cheaper, not more expensive models to that.
For birding, there is absolutely no benefit in being able to record what you are seeing, no benefit in the heat trace being sharper, wider field of view is debatable as you tend to sweep, see something warm blooded and then try to find it with torch and/or binoculars in order to identify.

Even that "cheap" nhbs one has wi-fi streaming which is of debatable use! so there is another feature you could lose.

Swappable batteries are vital. I'd avoid anything with the battery built in.

The question is, how cheap can we go for comparable performance, at which point every birder could be going out armed with one.
(Or when will they be built into binoculars, pressing a button overlaying the thermal image onto your binocular view. That will be really cool)
Unfortunately, I don't have that answer, but I wouldn't be surprised if a £500 model without any of the bells and whistles would be just fine.

I’m in the uk, bought a HikMicro FQ50 and have been underwhelmed with what I’ve found.
Going to nature reserves late at night, I can (just about) see roosting pigeon with the naked eye but see nothing meaningful with the scope.
I stayed at an eco lodge (Suffolk, near Minsmere) and watched a mouse under a hedge and bats flying around but only a single solitary roosting bird; I know there were more there because I scanned, then walked a bit, and my walking disturbed birds which flew away.
Sounds like I need more practice but I’m really not sure what I could be doing wrong.
When I bought it, I used it in a field (about dusk) and saw a handful of pheasant walking around, oh and in the middle of a farmers field in Norfolk I realised that the field had loads of hares (plus leverets which even when lit up with a visible light torch were very difficult to spot) and deer.

In terms of places like Costa Rica, I’d thought it wouldn’t work well because of lack of difference in temperature. But I’m also interested in export/import laws - I thought we weren’t allowed to - anyone had any problems? I assume it’d be confiscated and I’d never see it again.

 

[Amadeus1756]

Good day, has anyone tried the Axion 2 XQ35 Pro? Was thinking of using it for spotting nightjars or owls...

​

I took mine on a nightjar walk and didn’t see any in the scope, just kind of fleeting views with bins)

 

[Patudo]

What's the effective range of these, for targets roughly the size of a pigeon? It'd be fascinating to try to observe night-hunting peregrines with one, but you'd need a device that would record targets at quite significant distances (could easily go 400m or more away).

 

[Amadeus1756]

What's the effective range of these, for targets roughly the size of a pigeon? It'd be fascinating to try to observe night-hunting peregrines with one, but you'd need a device that would record targets at quite significant distances (could easily go 400m or more away).

The specification of such devices quote huge distances but I think that’s usually for a man-sized target (which seems odd as in the uk it’s generally illegal to shoot a man, even the unpleasant ones).
The resolution does come into it as well - it’s terrible compared to even a cheap digital camera.
Once I’ve recovered from Covid, I’ll try and get some ballpark numbers for you.

 

[opisska]

Maybe because a deer tends to be man-sized?

 

[Mono]

People's expectations of thermal imagers is some what skewed by seeing them on wildlife documentaries. The camera used on Springwatch is a variant on one used on British military helicopters. If they did let you buy one it would be hundreds of times the price of ones mentioned above.

 

[AveryBartels]

For a cheaper option, I just bought this little thermal camera that attaches to one's phone:

Xinfrared T2 Pro World’s Smallest Thermal Monocular

Xinfrared is one of the leading suppliers in the field of outdoor hunting thermal scope monocular camera using infrared measuring devices

www.xinfrared.com

I haven't used it much yet (heading to Colombia in 2 weeks when it will get it's proper breaking in!) but the friend who recommended it to me just spent a month in West Papua + Borneo and he LOVES it. He said he found lots of nightbirds and mammals, thrushes in dark daytime understory and even useful for skulky canopy birds. I have found that even on fairly bright days at home, it picks out chickadees and Crossbills in the treetops no problem.

 

[starforgedape]

My thinking is that though getting as much detail or resolution is always good, it is not the paramount thing if birding is the purpose. The thermal is used for determining if there is indeed a bird, and then you would use your spotting scope or binoculars to ID the bird. Meaning, the thermal device is a supplement and not should be a means to make out what the actual bird is. Is my thinking correct? Which is why I am inclined to get the Axion 2 XQ35 Pro as opposed to getting a high end one? Or do you guys think, because I am willing to shell out the expense, getting say a Telos or Helion would be definitely better? Or does my premise make sense?

 

[pppppvvvv]

My thinking is that though getting as much detail or resolution is always good, it is not the paramount thing if birding is the purpose. The thermal is used for determining if there is indeed a bird, and then you would use your spotting scope or binoculars to ID the bird. Meaning, the thermal device is a supplement and not should be a means to make out what the actual bird is. Is my thinking correct? Which is why I am inclined to get the Axion 2 XQ35 Pro as opposed to getting a high end one? Or do you guys think, because I am willing to shell out the expense, getting say a Telos or Helion would be definitely better? Or does my premise make sense?

No that's exactly how I see it, and have used mine over the last couple of years.
You are never going to see plumage with one, no matter how good it is, so don't even try. It finds little balls of heat for further investigation!

In fact the only "misconception" that I had, and it's only recently been removed in my head, is that I've always seen common birds. I thought the thermal would find the rarer birds that I don't see..
But it doesn't! It finds just as many of the common species that I would have missed, and the same proportion of rarer birds. I e. Very few!

I use mine in daylight mostly. At night it really can clean up, and pick up many more rare ( or elusive) animals

 

[pppppvvvv]

The hardest part can be subsequently finding the animal in your binocs. And I try and line the heat up in the thermal view with a branch or twig or post as a feature that is visible in the binoculars also. The thermal doesn't give you any clue how far away the subject is. Perhaps an expensive model would assist here in that you'd know if it was sparrow shaped/size or woodpigeon etc.

Also if you move slightly, you can tell where the heat is strongest so the animal is more in view. That's cool. You see things really buried away in the foliage!
It's still a woodpigeon, 9 times out of 10, but cool all the same!

 

[opisska]

A laser pointer aligned with the IR view is helpful - some models already have it, we had to rig it ourselves. But this works best for two people - one points at the detected heat and the other looks at the dot in binoculars - or takes a picture. If there aren't multiple layers of branches, it is sometimes possible to focus on the dot itself, without seeing the animal and take a photo with flash - very useful for some species that run away from any light.