Ruddy Shelduck... (1 Viewer)

[Jonny Rankin]

Hi all,

Found a female Ruddy Shelduck at Snettisham RSPB Saturday lunchtime (see attached), I reported it to the news services although it doesn't appear to have been reported since.

Got me thinking about Ruddy Shelducks and their tickability; looking through Birdguides, since the start of June there have been up to 23 individuals across over ten counties. With five reported in the humber estuary on the 20th of this month alone.

Reading this Keith Vinicombe article it seems these late summer records refer to overshooting Dutch birds and there arrival is annual...

I note there was a little debate on a Birdforum thread back in 09 but wondered if peoples views given subsequent records / years may have changed... coincidentally I understand a pair successfully breed in Sennowe Park, Norfolk the same year.

Basically given the annual records peaking in later summer, put simply, I don't understand why I cannot tick 'em?

I've also added a poll on my blog (see right had side) so feel free to vote on whether you'd tick Ruddy Shelduck or not there...

I look forward to hearing from people.

Cheers,

Jonny

 

[marek_walford]

You can count whatever you like on your personal list!

Otherwise, depends what authority you want to follow. If you follow the BOU you can't tick Ruddy Sheluck as no modern wild records have been accepted and it isn't on category C as a self-sustaining feral species.

Good info here:

http://uk400clubrarebirdalert.blogspot.co.uk/2009/08/ruddy-shelducks-in-britain-some.html

 

[Wildmoreway]

I did see a pair of Ruddy Shelduck on Winterley Pool near Sandbach in Cheshire back in 2008, they were there for a few days and then vanished. Others had seen them too

http://wirralbirders.blogspot.co.uk/2008_08_01_archive.html

Along with the comment that the primaries had been clipped .. so presumably escapees from a local collection.

And here is the pic of the pair that I saw that were idenfified by CarlJ

http://www.wildlifebritain.com/wildlife_forum/viewtopic.php?id=726

 

[Hotspur]

Essentially I think that the BOURC are burying their head in the sand. These birds are either tickable Cat C's in the way Sacred Ibis may be or they are Cat A. Playing the numbers game with the dutch moulting flock they are more likely to be of wild origin but proving provenance of individuals is of course impossible without a ringed bird. With the July/August peak any bird that is on the east coast and shows no obvious signs of captivity should surely be accepted as other more traditional vagrants are. But then this opens up the same issue with Marbled Teal and White-headed Duck. The fact that incursions into the near continent are annual makes it seem an anomaly that these ducks are ignored. Perhaps now that rare nearctic ducks are given the benefit of the doubt the time will come to reappraise these post breeding dispersers. I imagine that the most significant hurdle would be a Cat A 1st which would then open the floodgates and see c20 records a year accepted.

 

[liocichla]

There was at least one pair of ruddy shelducks around in mid norfolk in 2009, in fact it is on my garden list. However, along with hybrid mallards they would make a good target for wildfowlers instead of them shooting our native pinkfeet and dabbling ducks.

 

[Farnboro John]

Essentially I think that the BOURC are burying their head in the sand.

Hear hear. I ticked Ruddy Shelduck in 1994 at which point the BOURC position clearly became untenable (due to the tracked influx, not because I ticked the species!).

They may well be Euro-C birds, but my understanding is that under AERC rules that ought to result in acceptance.

John

 

[Steve Lister]

How much does it cost to do an isotope analysis on moulted feathers?

There is a pair moulting at Rutland Water (as in most recent years) and it should be easy enough to find some feathers.

The birds concerned arrive in late June or early July, moult, and then clear off again as soon as they can fly.

Steve

 

[Hotspur]

How much does it cost to do an isotope analysis on moulted feathers?

There is a pair moulting at Rutland Water (as in most recent years) and it should be easy enough to find some feathers.

The birds concerned arrive in late June or early July, moult, and then clear off again as soon as they can fly.

Steve

Would isotope analysis seperate a near continent escape from a Swiss bird? Sounds like a good idea. If they were wild birds from further afield it would surely put the cat amongst the pigeons but regular returning birds I guess have less good credentials (a la the Slimbridge Snow Geese which were shown to be ferals from the Low Countries).

 

[Jonny Rankin]

Thanks for the replies...

Evening all,

Many thanks for the replies some really divergent responses from shotgun death to isotope analysis :t:

All equally interesting.

Ten votes on my blog so far, of which 70% would tick Ruddy Shel! So I am not the only duck lover out there.

Isotope confirmation would be ace - so if any rutland birders can muster a feather that'd be magic. I am back at Snettisham this weekend but there little / absolutely no chance of achieving a feather there.

Heading up for the high-tide so be interesting to see if that pushes up any more Ruddy Shel's?

Cheers,

Jonny

 

[lewis20126]

There is a pair moulting at Rutland Water (as in most recent years) and it should be easy enough to find some feathers.

Steve,

A trusted correspondent has just pointed out that if it's the same pair (as you suggest), then perhaps the isotope analysis will confirm that the moulted feathers were grown (the previous year) on Lagoon C.

cheers, alan

 

[Nightranger]

The debate will become irrelevant if the species becomes established as a feral population but then again, there are some regions that do not accept barnacle geese even though it is perfectly acceptable to count what is clearly a 'farmyard' greylag because feral populations exist nearby. I do not make the rules so I am profoundly glad that I do not understand the reasoning behind them either. Anyway, the pair at Frodsham (31st July) looked good even though I cannot count them.

 

[J Jones]

There is a pair moulting at Rutland Water (as in most recent years) and it should be easy enough to find some feathers.

My guess is this is the same pair that spends much of the year in the Peterborough area, often at Baston & Langtoft Pits but sometimes elsewhere - Baston Fen, Deeping Lakes etc. They just don't get reported, a) because the Peterborough area has next to no birders and b) the few birders there believe them to be tripe.

Cheers,
Josh

 

[Steve Lister]

Steve,

A trusted correspondent has just pointed out that if it's the same pair (as you suggest), then perhaps the isotope analysis will confirm that the moulted feathers were grown (the previous year) on Lagoon C.

cheers, alan

Good point !!

Steve

 

[Farnboro John]

Six at Alkborough Flats - obviously fresh in - stick 'em on the list!

John

 

[Brian Stone]

My guess is this is the same pair that spends much of the year in the Peterborough area, often at Baston & Langtoft Pits but sometimes elsewhere - Baston Fen, Deeping Lakes etc. They just don't get reported, a) because the Peterborough area has next to no birders and b) the few birders there believe them to be tripe.

Cheers,
Josh

Probably because they are (tripe that is). Known escapes have bred like bunnies in the past and are probably the source of most records. They can even fly to the coast in late summer! Sorting out a genuine vagrant is as tricky as any other dodgy duck.

 

[paulptct]

Feb 2012

Hi all,

Found a female Ruddy Shelduck at Snettisham RSPB Saturday lunchtime (see attached), I reported it to the news services although it doesn't appear to have been reported since.

Got me thinking about Ruddy Shelducks and their tickability; looking through Birdguides, since the start of June there have been up to 23 individuals across over ten counties. With five reported in the humber estuary on the 20th of this month alone.

Reading this Keith Vinicombe article it seems these late summer records refer to overshooting Dutch birds and there arrival is annual...

I note there was a little debate on a Birdforum thread back in 09 but wondered if peoples views given subsequent records / years may have changed... coincidentally I understand a pair successfully breed in Sennowe Park, Norfolk the same year.

Basically given the annual records peaking in later summer, put simply, I don't understand why I cannot tick 'em?

I've also added a poll on my blog (see right had side) so feel free to vote on whether you'd tick Ruddy Shelduck or not there...

I look forward to hearing from people.

Cheers,

Jonny

I saw one on Barton Broad Norfolk in Feb 2012, I was then told that 5 had been seen on berney marshes the week before.

 

[Alex_HJ]

Anyway, the pair at Frodsham (31st July) looked good even though I cannot count them.

I ticked these birds, they looked at genuine as can be I guess for Ruddy Shelducks. My best guess is that they were from the european feral population which are self sustaining - so on the list they went!

Just one of those things I had to get over and done with :t:

 

[Stephen Dunstan]

I ticked these birds, they looked at genuine as can be I guess for Ruddy Shelducks. My best guess is that they were from the european feral population which are self sustaining - so on the list they went!

Just one of those things I had to get over and done with :t:

Refreshing honesty about a lot of people's logic on this issue - I wanted a tick so I had one.

Stephen

 

[Nightranger]

I ticked these birds, they looked at genuine as can be I guess for Ruddy Shelducks. My best guess is that they were from the european feral population which are self sustaining - so on the list they went!

Just one of those things I had to get over and done with :t:

I have a subsidiary list and the ruddy shelduck went on that but not on my life list. It is a difficult one because we cannot count this species along with barnacle geese and white stork here in GM. We had a good shout for a white stork on my local patch in spring when several 'genuine' white stork were in the country but it was never considered by the county recorder (apologies Ian McK). I respect that it is a very fraught area but I do fear that our personal lists are more rapidly departing from our official lists than is really comfortable...thank goodness I am not a county recorder. :eek!:

 

[JustinJansen]

Highest number now is 773 in The Netherlands. Numbers build up rapidly and build down also quickly, see at http://waarneming.nl/gebied/view/15...1&to=2012-08-12&sp=236&z=0&u=0&rows=20&page=1