Spotting Scope Research: Swarovski, Zeiss and Leica (1 Viewer)

[Will K]

I have tried to learn how to keep both eyes open, but my mind doesn't seem to do the trick. Inevitably I end up gently closing one eye.

Me too. It probably just takes more practice. I always have to remind myself to open the other eye, but the view is pretty compromised as my brain still tries to synchronise both. I guess Another option is to wear a floppy hat, or even an eyepatch - Pirate style!

 

[corvid-8]

Me too. It probably just takes more practice. I always have to remind myself to open the other eye, but the view is pretty compromised as my brain still tries to synchronise both. I guess Another option is to wear a floppy hat, or even an eyepatch - Pirate style!

I have tried to learn how to keep both eyes open, but my mind doesn't seem to do the trick. Inevitably I end up gently closing one eye.

Try to blacken the view of your other eye by positioning the Scope Case eyepiece cover at right angles to the scope, if you have no Scope Case make a shield out of black neoprene or such like and attach it at at right angles instead.
This blackened shield cuts off vision in that eye and stops tremor .
After using for several weeks then try it without and both eyes open.
Yes it looks naff and weird but your Scope is a TOOL.

 

[wllmspd]

I always close one eye, but then years of astro mean I’m probably more used to it than others.

Peter

 

[kabsetz]

Corvid has good advice for viewing with both eyes open. Looking at some pictures of biathlon skiers shooting will give ideas for what a shade could look like. A friend has made one from a simple sheet of black plastic, cutting a hole that fits snugly over the eyepiece barrel and securing it with a rubber band.

It is much less fatiguing on the eyes, and also means that you can switch to binoculars and immediately see well with both eyes without having to wait for you squinty eye to recover.

 

[DRodrigues]

View attachment 1491370

I don't remember of reading before that the use of the Leica booster reduced the AFOV - only that astro users saw vignetting. However, Leica was the first to introduce an extender! I noticed that Leica assumes the AFOV redution using the extender, at their web-page.
On the Meopta S2 you can also use astro eps, as also on the Kowa. In the case of Zeiss, still doesn't exist any commercially available astro adapter, that is a shame and show a lack of "market vision" of Zeiss - as I said before, if Zeiss would produce such an adapter, would be selling much more Harpias...

 

[georgeonus]

Good questions. And the answer is, as always, it depends. For terrestrial viewing the most important limiting factor are the viewing conditions, and these depend greatly on where you live. That's pretty obvious. Even in the temperate northern climate where I live magnifications are severely limited by atmospheric conditions on most days. So much so that I find I rarely benefit from magnifications above ~40-50x. I think I only used 75x, the maximum magnfication of my ED82, twice last year, on days with truly exceptional viewing conditions. Given that I find I can easily work with an exit pupil of 1mm (although I prefer to have a slightly larger exit pupil, say 1.5mm), I think the biggest scope size for my needs would be a 90-100mm scope. That would give be a nice big exit pupil at the high magnifications I most use, around 40-50x, with plenty of reserves.

However, I'm not sure I would like to use such a monster. I certainly wouldn't like to carry it around with the large (and heavy) tripod+head such a scope needs. I'm not getting any younger, and I can live with the knowledge that I might miss a bird I could have gotten with a larger scope. Birding needs to be fun, not hard work.

Last point: No matter how large the scope is, the quality is always paramount. Why get a big scope if the optics aren't perfect?
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Hermann

Hey Herman, I gotta say I might have a slightly different take on things.

Sure, the viewing conditions are a big deal when it comes to terrestrial viewing, and they do vary depending on where you live. No argument there. But here's the thing: even in my neck of the woods, I've had some pretty awesome magnifications despite the atmospheric conditions. So, I wouldn't rule out going above 40-50x altogether.

When it comes to scope size, I get your hesitation about going for a monster scope. No one wants to lug around a massive setup with a heavy tripod and head. Especially as we're not getting any younger But hey, missing out on a bird because of a smaller scope? That's a tough pill to swallow for me. I'd rather have a larger scope and increase my chances of spotting those feathered beauties. Sorry, but what seems to me better.

Whatever, I appreciate your perspective, Herman! We asll are searching for that perfect balance between size, convenience, and quality.

Cheers,
Alex

 

[Hermann]

Hey Herman, I gotta say I might have a slightly different take on things.

That's fine with me ...

Sure, the viewing conditions are a big deal when it comes to terrestrial viewing, and they do vary depending on where you live. No argument there. But here's the thing: even in my neck of the woods, I've had some pretty awesome magnifications despite the atmospheric conditions. So, I wouldn't rule out going above 40-50x altogether.

Yep. It does happen, and I'm happy to use high magnifications when possible (and necessary).

When it comes to scope size, I get your hesitation about going for a monster scope. No one wants to lug around a massive setup with a heavy tripod and head. Especially as we're not getting any younger But hey, missing out on a bird because of a smaller scope? That's a tough pill to swallow for me. I'd rather have a larger scope and increase my chances of spotting those feathered beauties. Sorry, but what seems to me better.

Well, I do quite a lot of hiking, usually 8-12 km. My big scope (ED82 in my case) + a reasonably sturdy tripod weighs more than 5 kg. Carrying that is no fun, especially not if you're also carrying a camera. So I switch to a 60mm scope or even the tiny ED50.

In the summer we'll be of to Norway again. If you're hiking between 10 and 20 km in the fjells, you surely don't want to carry a big scope in addition to a camera, some food and foul weather gear.

We asll are searching for that perfect balance between size, convenience, and quality.

That's why I use three different scopes ...

Hermann

 

[Will K]

I've been using my Razor again recently, and the CA is beginning to become more noticeable. I think using the NLs has increased my sensitivity to that and my standards have gone up involuntarily... damn it!

Based on others' experiences, would anyone say that are there any scopes listed in post #1 which have particularly good CA control? Do folks find the ATX to be better than the Harpia, or the Kowa better than the Televid, for example, etc.?

I still don't have the time or money to conduct the kind of comparative field tests that I really want.

 

[MiddleRiver]

I only have a kowa553 and when others complain of CA in binos I sometimes don’t see it (e.g. recent criticisms of SFL’s). But I can say that I see zero CA in the Kowa!

 

[antoine22]

I've been using my Razor again recently, and the CA is beginning to become more noticeable. I think using the NLs has increased my sensitivity to that and my standards have gone up involuntarily... damn it!

Based on others' experiences, would anyone say that are there any scopes listed in post #1 which have particularly good CA control? Do folks find the ATX to be better than the Harpia, or the Kowa better than the Televid, for example, etc.?

I still don't have the time or money to conduct the kind of comparative field tests that I really want.

I've been using a Televid 65 for a few weeks now and I don't see any CA in everyday observations (there may be some slightly at the extreme edge of the field of view if the weather is grey and the bird is black, but that's it).
All in all, I'm extremely satisfied with this purchase, the wide angle eypiece is incredible.

 

[William Lewis]

Not much c.a in my monarch 82 either. Not that I've seen on axis anyway.

Will

 

[Will K]

I've been using a Televid 65 for a few weeks now and I don't see any CA in everyday observations (there may be some slightly at the extreme edge of the field of view if the weather is grey and the bird is black, but that's it).
All in all, I'm extremely satisfied with this purchase, the wide angle eypiece is incredible.

Glad to hear that.

I've still never tried one, but its at the top of my curiosity list. I'd probably go with the 82mm version with the mag extender.

 

[William Lewis]

Ca through the monarch 82 for reference. At 20x zoom with 20-60 eye piece.

 

[Will K]

Here's an example from the Razor at 27x (the lowest X setting). CA is very apparent on those leaves against the sky in the middle of the image.

 

[William Lewis]

View attachment 1522304
Here's an example from the Razor at 27x (the lowest X setting). CA is very apparent on those leaves against the sky in the middle of the image.

It certainly is.

 

[Will K]

Its a shame really. I really like the Razor as an object, and as an instrument to use. Its a solid, reliable and intuitive design and I enjoy taking it into the field. I just wish the glass was as good as the next-tier scopes (Harpia, Prominar, ATX, etc.)

I still like the wide AFOV it provides. It seems well above the average as far as that statistic is concerned, at least.

 

[has530]

I look through others scopes whenever offered and Kowa's tend to handle CA on another level than other top scopes. I think it's also important to consider eyepiece selection since more CA tends to come from the eyepiece than the objective in a well made ED scope. I have an orion grandview ED which is a cheapo Chinese scope (I believe now sold by svbony) but it takes astronomy eyepieces. Shown here is a tough challenge for CA with a pentax XL fixed eyepiece attached at about 35x:

As you can see the color correction is quite good (especially considering the scope costs $200 and I just held my phone up to the eyepiece). It would be a tough sell for me to buy a scope that cannot be adapted for 1.25" eyepieces.

 

[WRL]

I only have a kowa553 and when others complain of CA in binos I sometimes don’t see it (e.g. recent criticisms of SFL’s). But I can say that I see zero CA in the Kowa!

Agree. Same situation here with my KOWA TSN-554.

 

[pppppvvvv]

Hi,
I'm not very critical of my optics. And I would miss many defects I suspect.
However I did own a Swarovski atx95, and changed to a harpia 85.
I do notice ca occasionally with the harpia, which I don't recall ever seeing thru the ATX.
Not often, but definitely it exists.

 

[Will K]

Hi,
I'm not very critical of my optics. And I would miss many defects I suspect.
However I did own a Swarovski atx95, and changed to a harpia 85.
I do notice ca occasionally with the harpia, which I don't recall ever seeing thru the ATX.
Not often, but definitely it exists.

That's interesting to know. Its curious that Zeiss glass at that level should display more CA than the Swarovski equivalent. I wonder if other people have that experience, too.

Out of curiosity, why did you make the change from the ATX to the Harpia?