St. James Park in London: What is wild and what isnt? (1 Viewer)

[THE_FERN]

Scores of Nightingales in Hyde Park (apparently) going unrecorded because of that?

No that's Berkeley Square...

 

[01101001]

Along the northern fence this spring unless my memory fails me. 3-4 counted in 5-10 minutes during the day, matching their abundance in optimal habitat on the Continent.

 

[THE_FERN]

Along the northern fence this spring unless my memory fails me. 3-4 counted in 5-10 minutes during the day, matching their abundance in optimal habitat on the Continent.

Seriously? Didn't see that report. But they're back at Cheshunt at least

 

[01101001]

Didn't report it since I assumed it was normal (?); wonder if they're still there or have moved on?

 

[THE_FERN]

Didn't report it since I assumed it was normal (?); wonder if they're still there or have moved on?

Well no not normal. Hyde park is quite well watched by (iirc) Des Mackenzie & others. It attracts lots of plastics like white-winged tern, white-fronted goose and bearded tits ...all feral of course.

I didn't see any mention of nightingales on the London birders site but perhaps I was away.

 

[raymie]

If you are talking about submitting birds to ebird, you should submit every free-ranging bird you see. Not just what is "countable". Ebird uses that information to track populations trends for non-native species. Non-established exotics like the black swans and such will be categorized as "escapee" obviously on the checklist.

If you go to the barchart on ebird for the site, there are a range of obviously "non-countable" birds on the list, but they are all marked escapee. I'd say its fair to count anything without that tag for life listing purposes.

I agree in sentiment, but in this case specifically I don't this applies. Most of these birds are pinioned captive birds (completely captive so they do not count). The problem is plenty of wild birds are there too, so you have to sort out which ones are which. Just like lots of the lakes in central Florida, like Lakes Mirror and Eola.

 

[01101001]

Well no not normal. Hyde park is quite well watched by (iirc) Des Mackenzie & others. It attracts lots of plastics like white-winged tern, white-fronted goose and bearded tits ...all feral of course.

I didn't see any mention of nightingales on the London birders site but perhaps I was away.

Then--I guess--I need to seriously consider the possibility of my being mistaken in some way given that I made no recordings to prove it (only heard them sing on one day). But that would raise a few red flags for me because, unlike Thrush Nightingale (whose song could be confused with a short snippet of Song Thrush song or resemble Icterine Warbler song in timbre), Common Nightingale doesn't really have confusion species with the possible exception of its congener.

 

[rubatroid]

If you are talking about submitting birds to ebird, you should submit every free-ranging bird you see. Not just what is "countable". Ebird uses that information to track populations trends for non-native species. Non-established exotics like the black swans and such will be categorized as "escapee" obviously on the checklist.

If you go to the barchart on ebird for the site, there are a range of obviously "non-countable" birds on the list, but they are all marked escapee. I'd say its fair to count anything without that tag for life listing purposes.

The problem with St James's Park is that it's hard to tell what is free ranging and what is captive (wing pinioned). Makes it very difficult for visiting birders to know what to report to eBird and what not to.

Especially for species like Wigeon, Shelduck, Barnacle Goose and Red-crested Pochard which can be counted elsewhere in London but which are part of the collection at St James's Park. So I personally wouldn't count them at St James's Park (or anywhere else with a collection) unless I could clearly see that they were free-flying and unrestrained (as set out in eBird's policy here: Exotic and Introduced Species in eBird)

I also wouldn't count Black Swan at St James's Park because it's part of the collection and is therefore captive at that location.

 

[rubatroid]

From the more common ones, I'd be wary of the Common Pochard at this time of year, and the Mandarin and Egyptian Goose I'd want to see evidence it could fly. With both of those species, it's not massively unlikely to find them in the wild as there are established breeding populations that derive from escapes long ago, but I wouldn't go looking anywhere that has a waterfowl collection. I'd take a similar line with the infrequent ones - if they can fly and they're not obviously part of the collection then maybe, but none of them are very likely to be wild.

Away from the waterfowl you'll be on firmer ground. The parakeets, for example, are everywhere in London and well established.

Common Pochard and Egyptian Goose are fine to count there, but tend to agree that I'd want to see the Mandarin in flight

 

[rubatroid]

Difficult with some of these. Ruddy shelduck no. Goldeneye unlikely. Red-crested pochard perhaps. Basic q is, is it pinioned or not? (How many full wings does it have?)

Some of these have established feral populations in the area now. Obviously mandarin but also red-crested pochard. (Green-winged teal if really that ssp would be captive.) With shelduck unless regular birders to the area know then it's difficult to tell. There are genuinely wild birds about, and some are quite habituated. Probably they are feral, though, like the barnacle geese in walthamstow.

This partly depends on what you want to tick. For me there's a clear divide between a pinioned bird and everything else. I record the latter since it's of scientific interest

Agree with this. Common Shelduck are (irritatingly) part of the collection at the park, i.e. pinioned

 

[rubatroid]

As a long-standing (now ex-London birder) of 50 years, I would happily count everything on your first list but just Barnacle Goose and Red-crested Pochard on your 2nd list. Those two are the most recent feral birds to be acceptable in a London listing scenario. Neither are very satisfactory from a purist point of view. But even six on your first list are naturalised birds.
The common Shelduck are debatable, they could be wild birds but I don’t know if they have them in the collection.

Barnacle Goose are part of the collection, so I wouldn't count them in St James's

 

[maplekong]

I tick everything.

 

[Andy Adcock]

I tick everything.

Well I suggest you never submit your list to any comparison sites in the UK or probably anywhere else for that matter.

 

[Xenospiza]

Along the northern fence this spring unless my memory fails me. 3-4 counted in 5-10 minutes during the day, matching their abundance in optimal habitat on the Continent.

As someone who used to bird in the London region: this is really highly unlikely. You wouldn't even find such densities at their prime sites in the Lea Valley.
Song Thrushes?

 

[01101001]

As someone who used to bird in the London region: this is really highly unlikely. You wouldn't even find such densities at their prime sites in the Lea Valley.
Song Thrushes?

Must be indeed, although I still have my misgivings.

 

[maplekong]

Well I suggest you never submit your list to any comparison sites in the UK or probably anywhere else for that matter.

I tick everything, because here in Northern Ireland literally no-one has ornamental birds, or nice picturesque parks. It's hard for people who've lived in England or built-up regions in general to understand. Everything here is so small. We don't manage anything really. I'm just starting off birding too, so the stuff I see is not particularly variable (yet). Our parks are left to run wild- there's poison hemlock growing everywhere, nettles, plantain and brambles- but in a good way, which the birds are fine with. Obviously I don't tick domesticated variants, or pets, or specimens in zoos. But currently I tick everything. It may change once I move to England though.

 

[Andy Adcock]

I tick everything, because here in Northern Ireland literally no-one has ornamental birds, or nice picturesque parks. It's hard for people who've lived in England or built-up regions in general to understand. Everything here is so small. We don't manage anything really. I'm just starting off birding too, so the stuff I see is not particularly variable (yet). Our parks are left to run wild- there's poison hemlock growing everywhere, nettles, plantain and brambles- but in a good way, which the birds are fine with. Obviously I don't tick domesticated variants, or pets, or specimens in zoos. But currently I tick everything. It may change once I move to England though.

You're confusing me, the thread is about St James's Park in London, nothing to do with your Irish list?

 

[maplekong]

You're confusing me, the thread is about St James's Park in London, nothing to do with your Irish list?

Sorry if I've gone off topic, I was trying to explain why I would tick everything.

 

[Farnboro John]

Sorry if I've gone off topic, I was trying to explain why I would tick everything.

Worth remembering that birds have wings and Northern Ireland is not far from mainland Britain. One reason we have to be careful about escapes is that ducks in particular are devils for going long distance for seemingly no reason: British Mandarins in Iceland for instance. You might be safe ticking everything a thousand miles up the Amazon but I doubt it. Hey look, a Hippo!

John