Swift ID Whitburn Co.Durham (2 Viewers)

[lewis20126]

In this case, the bird above wouldn't stick out in a flock of apus around here, looking very like lots of the birds I'm seeing at the moment. But as I hope is clear from the above, that's not to say it isn't pallid, but I'd never call it here unless pallid is actually a common visitor - which I doubt.

In Spring (March-April) I have found individual Pallids do stick out from the massive flocks of Common Swifts in good light and have seen them at this season in both Cameroon and Liberia. Good light (flat, overcast preferred) is however needed and I prefer them below eye level. I'm not sure about autumn though with all those scaly juveniles...

cheers, alan

 

[Helsinki Birder]

You need to add (**in a non-vagrant context) to that statement

Ah that would be an ecumenical matter Jane!

The only difference between seeing a Pallid swift in, say, Spain, and seeing a Pallid swift in Ireland, is that they are rare in Ireland.

This causes a difference in the logical thinking of the observer.

Scenario A. (Spain).

Observer sees a swift.=> Features look good for Pallid Swift.=> Pallid Swift is common in Spain.=> It is a pallid swift.

Scenario B (Ireland.UK). Observer sees a swift.=> Features look good for Pallid swift.=> Pallid swift is rare here.=> Shit...F*ckity B*allSack.=> Is it a Pallid Swift or isn't it.=> Why isn't it a scaly common swift?=> C*ck, can I claim this??

But the features for Pallid swift should be the same in both scenarios.

The question I guess I am asking is....What are those features?

No one alone is reliable. So far all of them seem somewhat subjective to my mind, dependent on a myriad of light and posture conditions of the bird.

In this particular scenario, One of the authors of a recent identification article on the matter has stated it is 100% a Pallid. With seemingly one other person saying that prognosis is irrefutable. Majority consensus however seems to be in the Common Swift camp.

Me...I'm just confused.

Owen

 

[Barred Wobbler]

Here's a shot of an autumn pallid (at least I hope it is. It looked like one in flight, let's just say it's a swift), taken in Spain in mid September.

If anyone can tell me what's going on with its chin, I'd be grateful. It had that puffed-up appearance in all the shots I got and stood out in the field.

 

[snowcap]

Its` throat sac is full of invertebrates.

 

[Jane Turner]

Just been back to basics (Witherby) and BWP... and guess what, juv swifts differ from adults in not having gloss on the visible bases of the underpart feathers. That could easily make them appear paler!

(Incoherent scattering off an optically rougher surface)

 

[Strandman]

Hi Ed..

Look at the pic I posted above, (here reversed the bird so you can more or less compare feather for feather) and indicated the angle of the sun. Feathers are not flat, in strong sunlight lit from the front of the bird the rear edge of the feathers will be in shadow (and look darker).

Turn the bird round are the effect is less marked.

I did look at that one- must confess I thought the feathers were truly pale based in both pics, even allowing for half-moon light/shade effect from light hitting the feathers on the curve, as you show

[edit- cross-posted with the fun new point on the gloss!]

 

[Barred Wobbler]

Its` throat sac is full of invertebrates.

That was my guess at the time, but knowing swifts' propensity to harbouring feather parasites and such, I wondered if it might be something else.

Thanks

 

[Jane Turner]

See I don't - For me the feathers are uniform save for the usual scatter of the edges. The only properly pale feathers I can see are the ones south of the cloaca. We need someone with a juv Swift skin to hand to take a close up photo of a belly feather...

Who do we know with a houseful of ex-birds?

 

[Helsinki Birder]

See I don't - For me the feathers are uniform save for the usual scatter of the edges. The only properly pale feathers I can see are the ones south of the cloaca. We need someone with a juv Swift skin to hand to take a close up photo of a belly feather...

Who do we know with a houseful of ex-birds?

Hugh Hefner?

Owen

 

[lewis20126]

Who do we know with a houseful of ex-birds?

If you can wait till next June/July I'll grab one out of my loft and photograph it! I don't think there are any dead ones up there...

cheers, alan

 

[Barred Wobbler]

I know of someone with a dead squacco, if that's any help.

 

[Jane Turner]

I can wait.... probably!

"Chest, breast, belly, flanks, and vent black/brown, slightly glossed oily-bronze but visible feather-bases duller grey-brown without gloss in juvenile"

I guess we could get into semantics about when does duller grey brown compared to glossy brown/black become paler bases?

 

[Jane Turner]

I know of someone with a dead squacco, if that's any help.

I've only got a dead Black Grouse - and I think that's even less use in this case than a Squacco - we need a 1st year common swift!

 

[Jane Turner]

I've been looking for a way to explain the edge scatter of feathers (which makes the edges look darker than the rest) and the curvature of the feathers without getting to complex optical physics.. so instead here is a bird showing apparent darker edges to pure white feathers when the incident light is in the right place. I'm sure that this is what we can see on the Swift.

 

[duncan fraser]

Apologies for going momentarily off topic but I'm beginning to think maybe all those pagers exert some form of mind control. The Great Snipe at Rainton Meadows was reported on both Birdguides and RBA at similar times as an uncorroborated report or 'one reported'. It was missed from the headline section of the weekly review in which only the Norfolk Great Snipe was highlighted and included in the body section again using the 'reported' terminology (because it had been reported as a single observer sighting).

In relation to this swift both information services (and presumably Birdnet too) reported it as Pallid on the day it was seen based on the information that was available at the time. Neither this or the snipe may get accepted (if they are actually submitted at all) but it is not the place of either RBA or Birdguides to pre-judge what will and won't get accepted, they can only report the news based on what they have available to them at the time.

It wasn't meant as a criticism - I am a Birdguides subscriber - but just to highlight that a bird reported on the Weekly Review can be incorrect or misidentified. I'm sure its happened lots of times, but its only with hindsight that the problems emerge.

 

[username]

You need to add (**in a non-vagrant context) to that statement

Yes...!

Owen made some very interesting points tho that i agree with...re Pallid's apparent 'shape'. Although perhaps an indicator of Pallid...broader hips..blunter wings...i feel that depending on angle and attitude of bird that this is not always consistent...in fact you can find Apus Apus pix showing those jizz features on occasion...

And as he also mentioned..what i call the sunken dark 'tortoise eyes'...this feature too is very light angle dependent...in my opinion.

ps...re Mr Foghorns comments about Chiffy calls....i am sure we all have noticed the different calls of autumn birds...this seems to have been increasing in recent years...[never used to hear the variation in Chiffy calls in my earlier years]....perhaps they are of eastern origin...i don't know..!

pps...relating to 'calls' but not relevant to this discussion ...i have heard in my back garden in the summertime Bullfinch calls identical to the piping calls supposedly only made by Northern Bullfinch....:smoke:

All very interesting...:cat:


http://username-beast.blogspot.com/

 

[Barred Wobbler]

Common swift reported today from Whitley Bay - only about 5 - 6 miles from Whitburn

 

[duncan fraser]

Common swift reported today from Whitley Bay - only about 5 - 6 miles from Whitburn

The same bird? Any photos would be good.

 

[Barry Hunt]

The same bird? Any photos would be good.

On the Birdnet pager just come over as poss Pallid Swift Whitley Bay!!

 

[Jane Turner]

For want of a skin...here is a close up of a fresh juv Common Swift in the hand -Its still got its fine white tips, glossy dark subterminal band and unglossy base (exposed in some cases)

So that is two alternative mechanisms by which the bases of the feathers could be or could appear to be paler on Common Swift