Swift ID Whitburn Co.Durham (6 Viewers)

[username]

For want of a skin...here is a close up of a fresh juv Common Swift in the hand -Its still got its fine white tips, glossy dark subterminal band and unglossy base (exposed in some cases)

So that is two alternative mechanisms by which the bases of the feathers could be or could appear to be paler on Common Swift

I have this afternoon been attempting to arrange a visit to the New Walk Museum in Leicester in order to photograph some skins from their vast collection...and it would be easier to arrange to see the flippin Pope...[not that i'd really want to see him]...B

I will persist however as i am intrigued...:cat:

ps...i bet if i had said that i was David Attenborough they'd have jumped about a bit quicker...:smoke:

Not really the museums fault...cutbacks to staff etc...hard times...etc


http://username-beast.blogspot.com/

 

[Jane Turner]

ps...i bet if i had said that i was David Attenborough they'd have jumped about a bit quicker...:smoke:

Not really the museums fault...cutbacks to staff etc...hard times...etc


http://username-beast.blogspot.com/

My masterplan is to offer them a couple of moribund tubenoses and the afore-mentioned Black Grouse and do a ...while I'm here...how about a look at...

 

[Strandman]

I have this afternoon been attempting to arrange a visit to the New Walk Museum in Leicester in order to photograph some skins from their vast collection...and it would be easier to arrange to see the flippin Pope...[not that i'd really want to see him]...B

I will persist however as i am intrigued...:cat:

ps...i bet if i had said that i was David Attenborough they'd have jumped about a bit quicker...:smoke:

Not really the museums fault...cutbacks to staff etc...hard times...etc


http://username-beast.blogspot.com/

you ought to try the beloved Hobbies if you can get in- they are one of my favourites for the lighting effect Jane describes: mantle and wing coverts are plain blue/grey as far as I know, but can look practically barred if the light hits them just so

http://reddeparquesnacionales.mma.es/parques/donana/fauna/fauna018.htma

 

[username]

you ought to try the beloved Hobbies if you can get in- they are one of my favourites for the lighting effect Jane describes: mantle and wing coverts are plain blue/grey as far as I know, but can look practically barred if the light hits them just so

http://reddeparquesnacionales.mma.es/parques/donana/fauna/fauna018.htma

Perhaps i should set up a 'Mission Impossible' team who have all the necessary skills to enter the museum...[or maybe just use a battering ram]...

Seriously tho Ed...interesting what you say about our beloved Hobbies and the lighting effects..

Thinking about it...i might spend...[when i can get in]!..quite some time photographing different species under different lighting/directions etc...i reckon it would be most illuminating...in more ways than one...:cat:

ps...i like your master-plan Jane..:t:

http://username-beast.blogspot.com/

 

[Jane Turner]

I have a theory which would need a trip to museums and possibly a good travel budet to test, to explain why we have trouble with November Swifts.

1. The real pattern of juv underpart feathers (BWP, Witherby and photos in the hand - attached again) is a narrow white terminal edge, a glossy sub terminal band and a matt base. There is also a suggestion that the matt base maybe less dark.

2. The white tips wear off really quickly(weeks) according to references.The glossy band will wear too, more slowly (my supposition)

3. Body moult of Swifts starts in Dec (complete) so in Nov juv Swifts will be at their most worn (and we don't usually see them)

4. If the glossy tips reduce in size, more of the matt bases will show, giving a more scaled appearance. This would be less marked than Pallid, but in a strong low (Nov) light the effect might be quite similar.

Does thatsound bonkers?

 

[username]

HHHmmm....no...that doesn't sound bonkers at all Jane...in fact it makes a lot of sense to me...! Reckon you could be onto something there re explaining what we are actually seeing...


http://username-beast.blogspot.com/

 

[tconzemi]

I have a theory which would need a trip to museums and possibly a good travel budet to test, to explain why we have trouble with November Swifts.

Does thatsound bonkers?

Hi Jane
I don't know if this is of any help, this scaly Common Swift picture was taken in June in Southern France. Another question in this bird is why the innermost secondaries (or tertials) are much blacker than the rest of the wing.

 

[Jane Turner]

Hi Jane
I don't know if this is of any help, this scaly Common Swift picture was taken in June in Southern France. Another question in this bird is why the innermost secondaries (or tertials) are much blacker than the rest of the wing.

I'd need to check upon the moult sequences, but its likely that the inner secondaries have been replaced more recently.

 

[username]

Have you seen the pix of the supposed Pallid in Dorset from yesterday yet Jane...?...[see rare bird section]...

http://username-beast.blogspot.com/

 

[Strandman]

I have a theory which would need a trip to museums and possibly a good travel budet to test, to explain why we have trouble with November Swifts.

1. The real pattern of juv underpart feathers (BWP, Witherby and photos in the hand - attached again) is a narrow white terminal edge, a glossy sub terminal band and a matt base. There is also a suggestion that the matt base maybe less dark.

2. The white tips wear off really quickly(weeks) according to references.The glossy band will wear too, more slowly (my supposition)

3. Body moult of Swifts starts in Dec (complete) so in Nov juv Swifts will be at their most worn (and we don't usually see them)

4. If the glossy tips reduce in size, more of the matt bases will show, giving a more scaled appearance. This would be less marked than Pallid, but in a strong low (Nov) light the effect might be quite similar.

Does thatsound bonkers?

seems to be about the size of it- with one of the main consequences being that a swift like Whitburn may get described as having broad pale tips/fringes to body feathers, when in fact it doesn't have pale tips at all

 

[Jane Turner]

Have you seen the pix of the supposed Pallid in Dorset from yesterday yet Jane...?...[see rare bird section]...

http://username-beast.blogspot.com/

I hadn't... not sure I'd like to comment beyond how narrow are the wings and long the tail appearing on those to photos... it almost looks like a Palm Swift! Does seem to have paler secondaries though

 

[tconzemi]

try this one for close ups of all age classes
http://www.ibercajalav.net/img/277_SwiftAapus.pdf

 

[TWM]

Jane you need to be sitting down and taking big breaths before you view that site!!

 

[Brett Richards]

Hi Jane
I don't know if this is of any help, this scaly Common Swift picture was taken in June in Southern France. Another question in this bird is why the innermost secondaries (or tertials) are much blacker than the rest of the wing.

Hi Tom

In that photo, it is ALL the secondaries that are dark, not just the inner ones.

Brett

 

[tconzemi]

Hi Tom

In that photo, it is ALL the secondaries that are dark, not just the inner ones.

Brett

Blimey, all the others are 10 primaries, swifts are definitely special :eek!:

 

[FXM]

There were some very quick decisions made on one of the Filey swifts. There are plenty of very good pics out there.

I'm really looking forward to seeing some pics of the recent Flamborough bird (sorry if they've already appeared) that I'm are assured was a very obvious Pallid.

 

[FXM]

Saw a couple of blurred images of a Spurn Pallid (sorry John) on their site. Any better ones out there? Not sure when it was sighted. Was it accepted?

Familiar story, this time at Filey. An interesting swift(s) turns up that might be a Pallid. Someone/observers turn up later, see it, say it isn't one; birding services listen and broadcast that it isn't one. Message as always is turn up and make up your own mind.

Filey swift: Massive amount of subjectivity involved. I saw the photographed Filey swift very well (or at least I think it was the same bird - there were several around) and even though the views were just about as good as you could possibly expect I could never really see (obvious) scaling on the body (underparts) even though you knew pretty much the photos would show some - it's always there to a greater or lesser degree. This made me think it probably wasn't a Pallid. Whether I'm right or not I'm still not sure.

 

[KenM]

Saw a couple of blurred images of a Spurn Pallid (This made me think it probably wasn't a Pallid. Whether I'm right or not I'm still not sure.

Your not alone then

 

[FXM]

I've edited my last post. Perhaps I should qualify that my last two paragraphs were references to the Filey swift not the spurn bird..

 

[halftwo]

you ought to try the beloved Hobbies if you can get in- they are one of my favourites for the lighting effect Jane describes: mantle and wing coverts are plain blue/grey as far as I know, but can look practically barred if the light hits them just so

http://reddeparquesnacionales.mma.es/parques/donana/fauna/fauna018.htma

Yes, and I wrote something similar regarding the seeming blue/brown colour shift on Hobby wings in (I think) last year's Hobby thread - illustrated with some excellent photos. I'll see if I can dig it out.

Some great points/analyses made here - but will it get us any nearer to a definitive id?! As has been said a lot depends on light and attitude (of both bird and birder!) ...