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The Most Beautiful Binoculars in the World (1 Viewer)

Very much earlier on this thread I nominated the Zeiss 8x30B porro as the most beautiful binocular mainly because its looks so elegant compared to conventional 8x30s such as the Habicht. Yesterday I was browsing through the RSPB "Birds" magazines for 1974 and looked at the binocular adverts.
The Zeiss 8x30B porro retailed at £132.44 compared to £94.94 for the 8x30B Dialyt roof and £111.50 for the Dialyt 10x40B. The Zeiss 8x30B porro not only had elegance but class or is it bling? Who said porros cost less than roofs? Incidently the only Habicht reference was for the "Diana" 10x40 retailing at £78.
 
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Very much earlier on this thread I nominated the Zeiss 8x30B porro as the most beautiful binocular mainly because its looks so elegant compared to conventional 8x30s such as the Habicht. Yesterday I was browsing through the RSPB "Birds" magazine for 1974 and looked at the binocular adverts.
The Zeiss 8x30B porro retailed at £132.44 compared to £94.94 for the 8x30B Dialyt roof and £111.50 for the Dialyt 10x40B. The Zeiss not only had elegance but class or is it bling? Who said porros cost less than roofs? Incidently the only Habicht reference was for the "Diana" 10x40 retailing at £78.

That was during the Great Reign of the Porro when roofs were inferior because of their out of phase prisms, slightly fuzzy images, and dimmer views.

The story goes, someone posted this anecdote, that it was the ladies of the birding clubs with whom roofs caught on, with their dainty, upper crust in-breed hands (sometimes webbed so they couldn't spread their fingers wide enough to wrap around a porro ;)

I can see the advantages of roofs, the more robust build quality (or at least potentially if made right), the superior WP with internal focus (though that also brings with it liabilities as both Henry and Holger have pointed out), closer focus, smoother focus in the winter than external focusers, and more compact design (though not necessarily an advantage for the Big Handed Birder with non-webbed fingers).

But the fact that most porros are relegated to the low end today while birders have to pay through the proboscis to get the same quality as a premium porro tells the story of how their respective evolutions diverged.

It's been a "punctuated equilibrium" for roofs, because the whole Roof Revolution started only a little over two decades ago with the Zeiss 7x42 B/GA and Leica Trinovids. Although Swarovski had been offering its SLCs, they were the darlings of hunters, not birders. Swaro didn't jump on board the Peace Train until the EL.

Nikon burst on the scene with its LX/HG and gave the Top Three a run for the money. Meanwhile, manufacturing moved to China and the Pacific Rim, and a plethora of Chinbin companies arose with more models than you can shake a stick at.

Technology such a phase-coatings, prism coatings - aluminum, silver and dielectric, twist-up eyecups, internal focus, on-the-focus-rod diopters, etc., etc. trickled down to mid-priced and even entry priced levels.

Then the "clone" was born, where different companies re-badged basically the same bin in new "clothing". They started turning them out in the Chinese factories like Chevys during GM's heyday.

Funny though, how Zeiss and Leica still don't make their top bins with high ER like Nikon and Swaro and even some mid-tier roofs.

If I had the gumption, youth and wherewithal to start a company, I'd revive the porro and advance the model. While the dog legged prisms will always make the German-style porro less robust than a roof, an internal focuser done right (i.e., one that doesn't add CA or cause each side to focus differently), perhaps using Porro II prisms to keep the design slim for birders from the Daughters of the American (Roof) Revolution.

It would still be a hard sell due to the saturated roof prism market, but if even Dennis can be turned around, there's hope for other birders to rediscover the benefits of the porro design if porros were designed with birders and hunters in mind. I think hunters in particular would find porro's better depth perception and 3-D effect very helpful in separating prey from background if the porro could be designed tough enough to withstand "the mud, the blood and the beer." As we've seen from the truck tire runover with Steiner porros, it can be down with IF EP porros, and it should be possible with internal focus porros as well.

But alas, I have not the gumption, youth nor wherewithal to initiate the porro rival so the roof revolution will continue until the digi-bin revolution takes over.

Ignazio
 
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That was during the Great Reign of the Porro when roofs were inferior because of their out of phase prisms, slightly fuzzy images, and dimmer views.

The story goes, someone posted this anecdote, that it was the ladies of the birding clubs with whom roofs caught on, with their dainty, upper crust in-breed hands (sometimes webbed so they couldn't spread their fingers wide enough to wrap around a porro ;)

I can see the advantages of roofs, the more robust build quality (or at least potentially if made right), the superior WP with internal focus (though that also brings with it liabilities as both Henry and Holger have pointed out), closer focus, smoother focus in the winter than external focusers, and more compact design (though not necessarily an advantage for the Big Handed Birder with non-webbed fingers).

But the fact that most porros are relegated to the low end today while birders have to pay through the proboscis to get the same quality as a premium porro tells the story of how their respective evolutions diverged.

It's been a "punctuated equilibrium" for roofs, because the whole Roof Revolution started only a little over two decades ago with the Zeiss 7x42 B/GA and Leica Trinovids. Although Swarovski had been offering its SLCs, they were the darlings of hunters, not birders. Swaro didn't jump on board the Peace Train until the EL.

Nikon burst on the scene with its LX/HG and gave the Top Three a run for the money. Meanwhile, manufacturing moved to China and the Pacific Rim, and a plethora of Chinbin companies arose with more models than you can shake a stick at.

Technology such a phase-coatings, prism coatings - aluminum, silver and dielectric, twist-up eyecups, internal focus, on-the-focus-rod diopters, etc., etc. trickled down to mid-priced and even entry priced levels.

Then the "clone" was born, where different companies re-badged basically the same bin in new "clothing". They started turning them out in the Chinese factories like Chevys during GM's heyday.

Funny though, how Zeiss and Leica still don't make their top bins with high ER like Nikon and Swaro and even some mid-tier roofs.

If I had the gumption, youth and wherewithal to start a company, I'd revive the porro and advance the model. While the dog legged prisms will always make the German-style porro less robust than a roof, an internal focuser done right (i.e., one that doesn't add CA or cause each side to focus differently), perhaps using Porro II prisms to keep the design slim for birders from the Daughters of the American (Roof) Revolution.

It would still be a hard sell due to the saturated roof prism market, but if even Dennis can be turned around, there's hope for other birders to rediscover the benefits of the porro design if porros were designed with birders and hunters in mind. I think hunters in particular would find porro's better depth perception and 3-D effect very helpful in separating prey from background if the porro could be designed tough enough to withstand "the mud, the blood and the beer." As we've seen from the truck tire runover with Steiner porros, it can be down with IF EP porros, and it should be possible with internal focus porros as well.

But alas, I have not the gumption, youth nor wherewithal to initiate the porro rival so the roof revolution will continue until the digi-bin revolution takes over.

Ignazio

Signor Ignazio

When I was first getting excited about birds and bins we used modern looking Swift porros but travelling on holidays by motorcycle these relatively big instruments just took up too much room.

In the office where I worked two of the gents there were horse racing fans and they both rattled on about how more and more people were turning up to horse racing meetings with a new sort of really elegant binocular. Zeisses were most popular but Leitz was also gaining ground.

In those days in the UK birding was called bird spotting if it was called anything at all, it was considered highly eccentric.

So as far as I can see roofs got off the ground (theres a joke in there if you search really hard) in the UK by appealing to people wanting bins as elegant as the outfits they wore to the races. They appealed to myself and Troubadoris because they were compact.

BTW Brockers me old pal I'm pretty sure that the ER on Zeisses are very similar to Swaros but measured off the top lens not the eyecup. So 16mm in Zeissmarks = 18mm in Swaropfennigs, give or take the odd yodell caused by tight-fitting lederhosen.

Lee
 
When I started birding around 1974 roofs were begining to make their impact in Europe I bought my first roofs Zeiss West in 1985 and by this time were well established the main manufactureres and pace makers were Leitz (Leica) and Zeiss (West). Roofs were the desirable purchase at least 30 years ago as evidenced by articles in the then limited birding press mainly British Birds and optic guides published by the BTO. I seem to remember the late John Gooders, author of "Where to Watch Birds" advertising the 10x40 Zeiss West in the late 70s. Most UK publications of the late 70s were advocating the supremacy of roofs over porros even though this was before phase correcting coatings. I think many of us were taken in by the hype at the time. Certainly in the mid 70s few retailers in the UK sold Habitch (Swarovski), and Nikon were not popular. The mid price market dominated by Swift and Carl Zeiss Jena mainly with Optolyth to a lesser extent initially, but their 10x40 porro might have been at least as good as the "alpha" roofs.
Peter Scott was using Leitz roofs in 1973 as seen a photograph at the time with Roger Tory Peterson and Peter Conder (Director RSPB).
 
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Worth also remembering that the very popular "definitive" birding roof the Zeiss 7x42 was designed by Hensolt years before being taken over by Zeiss and was originally leather covered rather than rubber armoured. I remember also seeing what I thought were keen birders at Minsmere Premier RSPB Reserve with Zeiss 8x56 roofs back in 1974.
I think Brock is correct in saying that Nikon made little impact on the roof prism market in the UK until the HGs were launched (despite their weight).
 
I love my Zeiss 7x42 rubber armoured phase corrected roof prism binoculars with wonderful characteristics not least the wide FoV. However I would nominate them as perhaps the least beautiful pair of binoculars.
 
Troubadour is quite right to mention the importance of the "horse racing" market for binocular manufactureres in the post war period.In the UK birdwatching only took off in the 1980s as measured by RSPB membership.
In the 60s and 70s the popular image of the UK birdwatcher was that of an impecunius eccentric.
Most binocular manufactures used horse racing illustrations in their advertising brochures. Today Swarovski is "by appointment to HM Queen"
 
Renze - looks like we've dipped again! that item# is showing as removed .....

I quite like the concept, just not really the reddish-brown colouring.

A nice perforated caramel tan would be lovely ..... preferably kangaroo leather ...... in particular the big, cranky, 6ft b*st*rd that wanted to wrestle, and kick the living sh*t outta me !! :eek!:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kD_yUKB85HM


Chosun :gh:
 
When I started birding around 1974 roofs were begining to make their impact in Europe I bought my first roofs Zeiss West in 1985 and by this time were well established the main manufactureres and pace makers were Leitz (Leica) and Zeiss (West). Roofs were the desirable purchase at least 30 years ago as evidenced by articles in the then limited birding press mainly British Birds and optic guides published by the BTO. I seem to remember the late John Gooders, author of "Where to Watch Birds" advertising the 10x40 Zeiss West in the late 70s. Most UK publications of the late 70s were advocating the supremacy of roofs over porros even though this was before phase correcting coatings. I think many of us were taken in by the hype at the time. Certainly in the mid 70s few retailers in the UK sold Habitch (Swarovski), and Nikon were not popular. The mid price market dominated by Swift and Carl Zeiss Jena mainly with Optolyth to a lesser extent initially, but their 10x40 porro might have been at least as good as the "alpha" roofs.
Peter Scott was using Leitz roofs in 1973 as seen a photograph at the time with Roger Tory Peterson and Peter Conder (Director RSPB).

Robert

Here is an extract from the copy of an ad posted by the UK importer of Zeiss bins in the Summer 1973 issue of Scottish Birds. This and other issues can be viewed on line: http://www.the-soc.org.uk/docs/scottish-birds/sb-vol07-no06.pdf

John Gooders watchingTawny Eagles inThebes Mr. John Gooders,the celebrated ornithologist and Editor of 'Birds of the World', is seen using his new Zeiss 10x40B binoculars. Mr. Gooders writes: " I stare through binoculars all day long for weeks on end without eyestrain.............

Takes you back Robert doesn't it?

Lee
 
Renze - looks like we've dipped again! that item# is showing as removed .....

I quite like the concept, just not really the reddish-brown colouring.

A nice perforated caramel tan would be lovely ..... preferably kangaroo leather ...... in particular the big, cranky, 6ft b*st*rd that wanted to wrestle, and kick the living sh*t outta me !! :eek!:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kD_yUKB85HM


Chosun :gh:

Something very strange is happening. Item doesn't show on eBay.com but it definitely does on eBay Netherlands (eBay.nl) and eBay Germany (eBay.de). Looks like a mistake to me as the seller has limited exposure and he probably doesn't know. OK, let's see if the link helps:
http://www.ebay.nl/itm/Swarovski-Mo...Foto_Camcorder_Ferngläser&hash=item3cd0c3aaa0

Renze
 
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Lee
It certainly does! That was the advert I was thinking of.
My first "alpha" bins were the shorter focussing dialyts 10x40s bought in 1985 despite what I've been writing on the Field of View Thread.
Brock's comment that roofs only took off in the last two decades didn't really apply to keen UK birders. The Swift Audabons and CZJs were being replaced by Leitz and Zeiss roofs.
Perhaps being topical as a result of Thatcherism!Apologies everyone

Robert
 
Something very strange is happening. Item doesn't show on eBay.com but it definitely does on eBay Netherlands (eBay.nl) and eBay Germany (eBay.de). Looks like a mistake to me as the seller has limited exposure and he probably doesn't know. OK, let's see if the link helps:
http://www.ebay.nl/itm/Swarovski-Mo...Foto_Camcorder_Ferngläser&hash=item3cd0c3aaa0

Renze

Thanks Renze! :t:

The translator could make little more than jibberish out of that lot, but the first pic shows a much more caramelised tan colour - pretty nice .....

I wonder which lucky BFer will pick that one up?
One of these 8x30 nutters? A collector? Or a lover of mechanical jewels, style and fashion?

No pics of the lenses though, so best to get a native of the lingo to give you the heads up on the finer points of the item description.


Chosun :gh:
 
Robert - the Zeiss 7x42 nominated as the "least beautiful." Come, come. I never thought of beauty coming in gradations. Just teasing you. Now the opposite of beauty is ugly or homely in my way of thinking. But this whole thread is a wee bit silly anyway.
The word 'functional", however, is a word of importance when applied to binoculars. In that respect, the Zeiss 7x42 (particularly rubber covered and phase coated as you mentioned) meets the test of high functionality. Perhaps we need to create a thread that renders our opinions on that aspect. What do you think?
John
 
Robert - the Zeiss 7x42 nominated as the "least beautiful." Come, come. I never thought of beauty coming in gradations. Just teasing you. Now the opposite of beauty is ugly or homely in my way of thinking. But this whole thread is a wee bit silly anyway.
The word 'functional", however, is a word of importance when applied to binoculars. In that respect, the Zeiss 7x42 (particularly rubber covered and phase coated as you mentioned) meets the test of high functionality. Perhaps we need to create a thread that renders our opinions on that aspect. What do you think?
John

John in many ways you are quite right. However I never thought my Zeiss 7x42 aesthetically pleasing but it was an extremly functional tool. I thought my Dialyt 10x40B a better looking binocular.
For all its lack of looks I always enjoy using my 7x42s.
At the end of the day we are talking style over function which is not altogether sensible when analysing tools. That said some binoculars look better than others. I allways assumed this to be a light hearted thread.
 
I have a nomination to this category. This is the Zeiss opera, 3.6x12 Diadem binocular. This one is not a birding model, but the style is very good. ;)

Zeiss, how about offering this one in a 7x20 pocket, birding model, with slim and quality optics, I am thinking it would be one to watch.

There is an earlier BF thread about this binocular. I found it, but maybe someone
with some time, would like to post it, it was a controversy at the time (Chinese).

Zeiss has been offering optics made in China for many years, and this is one.

So for you Zeiss Terra watchers, Zeiss does look for mfrs. all over the world, it
is not all in Germany any more.

Jerry
 

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I am repeating what I wrote in "Wow" thread, the Habicht 8x30 looks very ordinary whereas the now discontinued West German Zeiss 8x30B porro just oozes elegance.
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Really? I'd be willing to trade my elegant West German Zeiss 8x30, with original leather case, for an ordinary, plain jane Habicht.|:D|
 
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