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Thoughts on the Vortex Diamondback 7x36 (1 Viewer)

tpcollins

Well-known member
In case my Sightron Blue Sky 8x32 bins don't work out, I'm curious about the Vortex Diamondback 7x36 bins. These would have an exit pupil of a tad over 5mm. I think these have been discontinued but I was wondering if they were a decent bin for the money or just an average <$200 bin? Thanks.
 
I have one. Optically they are an average $200.00 roof prism binocular with a decent sized sharp sweet spot and lots of pincushion soft edges which can be dialed in sharper if needed. Ergonomically they are better than average. Rugged, well built, good eye relief, nice eye cups and very smooth focusing. 99 bucks is a real good buy IMO. You can throw them in your car and forget about them and they will still keep ticking.

Bob
 
I haven't tried the Vortex in question, but I am currently trying a similar model...the Bushnell Excursion EX 7x36 birding binocular. Bought it for $143 with free shipping, including a coupon code that reduced the price from $150.

I will probably post an extended version of this as a review at some point.

These have phase correction, and weigh about 21 ounces. The field of view is wide, probably about 400 ft /1000 yards (the specs claim a bit more...and on the focus knob it says "451 ft FOV", which is even more than the published specs claim). The exit pupil is 5.1mm.

They don't really feel all that light for their size. The rubber armoring is nice, and the thumb indents on the bottom are very soft, but don't quite fit my thumbs in the angle I prefer to hold them. I wear a size 10 glove, so my hands might be medium to barely above medium size for a man. They do feel small in my hands, but again, not very light for their size. The open bridge design is nice, and works ok, though it would likely work even better on larger binoculars in my hands (when holding with one hand, etc.)

The focus knob is a bit stiff. The green color of the rubber is nice. I find them more difficult to hold steady, than the 10x42 Leupolds I mention below. I'm not sure if the Leupold's radically longer physical length is playing a role, but it just may be.

Optically, they are very sharp and bright given their size, and the color is mostly neutral to slightly warm...and well saturated. The contrast is probably as good as, or better than, anything anywhere near the price. Dark areas go very, very dark...and bright areas go very bright...both appear to extend the contrast I see with the naked eye. I do notice a bit of red and green color fringing (CA) toward the outside of the field, but only on the most extreme edges of a high contrast object, such as dark tree limbs against a brightly diffuse daylit sky. Set against a dimmer sky, such as after sunset, I couldn't see any CA. If there is ever CA in the center of the image, I can't see it. I don't have absolutely perfect vision, yet I do prefer to use binoculars without wearing corrective eyeglasses.

I forget what the eye relief is. It seems like it could use a bit more, but it might be above average. I use the eyecups extended all the way out, but also find that I like to press them tightly to my eyes, especially when there is bright light to the side or rear of my head. The multicoating looks very green on both objective and eyepiece, and seems to control reflection well.

When held to a bright light, or daylight, I can look inside from the eyepiece end (while holding them away from my eyes), and see some of the internal barrel structure and prism edges, being lit up. To be fair, it seems very few models other than the very expensive range, seem to control this very well...at least from test websites I have seen, which show test photos.

They seem to focus very close, perhaps under 5 feet. The depth of field is a bit shallow, but I like this. It allows objects to stand out against a busy background that becomes nicely blurred. I am a photographer, so I love lenses which perform similarly, such as my 135mm f/2.

When used for astronomy, stars appear as pinpoints, other than at the extreme edges. Faint objects such as nebulae, appear better resolved than a cheaper 8x42 pair that I own, but not quite as good as a friend's more pricey, but older 10x42 Leupolds. During daytime, this Bushnell is easily brighter and has more contrast than either of those, but I admit they may not be the best comparison. (At present these are all I have to compare.)

I didn't dare look at the full moon with these, as it would have hurt my eyes.

I will likely return these Bushnells, because I decided to bite the bullet and try something a bit more expensive and larger, with ED glass. I will compare them before I return them, though.

The Vortex model that intrigues me is the upcoming Talon HD 8x32, with a claimed 9.1 degree field of view. It costs quite a bit more than I want to spend (over $400), but I may just try them anyway. I suspect the field periphery will suffer quite a bit, if the FOV really is that wide...but you never know.
 
Thanks Carl, the Excursion was one of the (6) bins I tested a year ago and I returned those as well. Everything I tried was compared to my Zeiss Victory FL 8x42 and my little 8x20 Ultravids - the Leupld 8x32 non-HD Gold Rings were the ones I kept. They're a bit heavy but I carry them mid-season for hunting - now I want a pair to keep in the console of my truck.

I don't want to replace the Leupys, just something decent enough to keep in the truck. Thanks,
 
Thanks Carl, the Excursion was one of the (6) bins I tested a year ago and I returned those as well. Everything I tried was compared to my Zeiss Victory FL 8x42 and my little 8x20 Ultravids - the Leupld 8x32 non-HD Gold Rings were the ones I kept. They're a bit heavy but I carry them mid-season for hunting - now I want a pair to keep in the console of my truck.

I don't want to replace the Leupys, just something decent enough to keep in the truck. Thanks,

Heck,
If that's what you want them for, get the Diamondback for 99 bucks! You won't regret it and if anything goes wrong Vortex has the best guarantee in the business. Just save the box it comes in because that is where the guarantee is located.

Here is 7 x 36 specs:http://www.cameralandny.com/optics/vortex.pl?page=vortexdiamondback7x36

Bob
 
I haven't tried the Vortex in question, but I am currently trying a similar model...the Bushnell Excursion EX 7x36 birding binocular. ....

These are (or were) one of my favorite bins. The optics are, as the OP stated, good. Not great, not zeiss great, they arent Sightron SII "holey cow great deal for under $200 clams" great, but really "good" at the sub-$200 price point.

Every non-bino nut and hunter I hand them to says "wow!".

Its been an experience comparing them to many supposedly better bins only to find I prefer these. They have taught me that glass/image quality isnt quite everything. I'm a firm believer in this now.

The exit pupil is huge and facilitates an easy view. The FOV is massive, and I find the depth of field is on par with other 6xish bins. Coupled with the fast and smooth focus, they make a good bin for following dragonfly's in flight.

I used them 99% of the time until I got the excursion 8x28 (smaller) and theron 8x32 (just flat out better on axis and wider sweet spot and seemingly as big FOV).

One of the things I love about these 7x36excursions is that for me, the ergo's are just about perfect. I like the tactile feel (I have the camo ones), the eye relief is dead on for me (It seems I require less than most people) the focus wheel is butter (unlike the OP, mine is very smooth and easy, extremely similar to my dad's much lauded Fury ), and they are smaller sized but still have heft for a steady hold. The strap, while padded, is too long for a birder but OK when wearing bulky hunting jacket/pack.

The funny thing is, I have theoretically "replaced" these with better glass. the 8x28 ex is just enough smaller to make them jacket pocket portable. The 8x sightrons are superior optically with better color, sharper on axis, and bigger sweet spot, only a little larger but much lighter. 8x Therons more so in that the FOV is giganormous with larger SS, brighter, etc. I just grabbed some 6x32 katmai which, aside from a lazy eyecup, are very similar yet better in most optical regards. The excursions should be for sale, but for the price I'd get, I cant part with them. What can I sell them for, $75? are an insane deal for $75. 95% leupold katmai for 25% the price. (Cameralnd "dumping' the Fury 6.5 for $130 and then the 7x36 dback for $99 isnt helping!)


Bottom line IMO, if the diamondbacks are substantially the same, which I think they are, then this is a GREAT deal at $99 and IMO a quintessential "car" bin.
 
In case my Sightron Blue Sky 8x32 bins don't work out, I'm curious about the Vortex Diamondback 7x36 bins. These would have an exit pupil of a tad over 5mm. I think these have been discontinued but I was wondering if they were a decent bin for the money or just an average <$200 bin? Thanks.

Maybe I got a bad sample but I found little to like about them compared to the Fury's which are pretty fine. I returned my diamondback within a day. The 7x36 is my favorite configuration. I now have it in a Zen Ray and could not be happier with it.
 
The 7x36 is my favorite configuration. I now have it in a Zen Ray and could not be happier with it.

Is that the Zen Ray 7x36 EDII? I had one of those for a couple of days and found too many things wrong with it. I returned it and Charles said that this particular bin wasn't up to their preferred spec. I wonder how many others are sold that are "not up to their spec"?
 
Speaking of Zen Ray, the body of their upcoming Prime HD sort of looks like a Minox HG clone, I could be wrong.

BrightIdea, are you saying you prefer the Vortex Diamondback optically, to the Bushnell Excursion EX? I mean, it's only $43 more in price, and the OP already has $4k worth of binoculars, he only wants a backup pair to loosen the lugnuts on his truck.
 
Speaking of Zen Ray, the body of their upcoming Prime HD sort of looks like a Minox HG clone, I could be wrong.

BrightIdea, are you saying you prefer the Vortex Diamondback optically, to the Bushnell Excursion EX? I mean, it's only $43 more in price, and the OP already has $4k worth of binoculars, he only wants a backup pair to loosen the lugnuts on his truck.

No, I mis-spoke or you misunderstood.

I never tried the diamondback. (I have used a few other vortex products and really liked a lot about each.)

A while ago I got the bushnell 7x36 excursion for a great price, similar to what the Diamondbacks are being offered at now.

I read some reviews and commentary that the diamondback 7x36 is the closed bridge variant of the excursion open bridge 7x36. (Nothing confirmed, as I havent used the Dback, but it was my assumption that they are more alike than different.)

I based my comments/suggestions (that the diamondback would be a great truck bino at $99) solely on my experiences with the 7x36 excursion.
 
BrightIdea, thanks very much for clarifying! I do like these Excursion 7x36, but wanted to try a Vanguard Endeavor ED 8.5 x 45. It will likely arrive tomorrow, although I probably won't have quite enough time to seriously evaluate and compare, until after March 26. I will need to return the Bushnell by April 1, if I decide to.

I have owned binoculars, mostly cheaper low performance types, but have never tried to seek out and compare models in this price range. Most of my disposable income has been spent on photography gear, and even renting photography gear. Before that, it was audio and video equipment.

The best binoculars I currently own (but rarely use), I purchased in the mid 1990's, a Celestron 15x80 giant model. They are quite big and heavy, and useless without support. Also they aren't very useful for birding, or sports viewing. I used them on a lower priced tripod years ago. I mostly used them to view terrain at a distance, from various hilltops...which was quite fun to do. It wasn't until two years ago that I purchased a decent carbon fiber tripod and ballhead, and last year I bought a decent carbon fiber monopod. I mostly use them for photography.

Ideally I want to buy a tripod adapter for whichever of these medium or "full size" binoculars I wind up keeping. The adapters I have seen, look cheap and possibly the wrong shape, for a recepticle on the front section of an "open bridge" type.

Some people are of the opinion that there is still easily discernable chromatic aberration in the above Vanguard model (despite the ED glass), so I guess I will find out if it's present on the one I get. But mostly the reviews have been full of praise. I realize it's larger and heavier than the Bushnell, but to me, the Bushnell is just not compact and light enough, to function as a compact, ultra portable binocular...so I basically have handled them the same as I would a 42mm weighing a few ounces more. I also realize the Endeavor is a bit narrower FOV than the Bushnell, so I will have to see if I can live with that as well.

One thing I notice with the Bushnell, is the specs online claim about 420 ft/1000 yards...yet printed on the focus knob, it says "FOV 451 ft". To me the actual FOV at infinity focus, is probably more like 400 ft /1000 yards, or perhaps barely under that...so I would call it ~ 390 to 400 ft. I could be mistaken I suppose.

Does yours seem a bit narrower than the specs claim, as well? I also realize there's a difference between "apparent" and actual FOV, in degrees, etc.

Also, do you think any of the 8x32 models you may have tried, seem any brighter (either during mid-day or twilight) than the Excursion? I realize the exit pupil is smaller, but that's not the only factor in brightness, obviously.
 
... but to me, the Bushnell is just not compact and light enough, to function as a compact, ultra portable binocular...so I basically have handled them the same as I would a 42mm weighing a few ounces more. ...


One thing I notice with the Bushnell, is the specs online claim about 420 ft/1000 yards...yet printed on the focus knob, it says "FOV 451 ft". To me the actual FOV at infinity focus, is probably more like 400 ft /1000 yards, or perhaps barely under that...so I would call it ~ 390 to 400 ft. I could be mistaken I suppose.

Does yours seem a bit narrower than the specs claim, as well? I also realize there's a difference between "apparent" and actual FOV, in degrees, etc.

Also, do you think any of the 8x32 models you may have tried, seem any brighter (either during mid-day or twilight) than the Excursion? I realize the exit pupil is smaller, but that's not the only factor in brightness, obviously.

From what I have been able to compare, the Ex7x36 could well be 451' FOV. I'd be surprised if its in the 390 range. So no, I'd say without having mesured it, I dont think the specs are off base.

I have two 8x32 models currently. The sightron SII and the Theron LT, and both are brighter than the ex7x36. IN fact, both are noticeably better in pretty much every optical category except for the sightron FOV being smaller. The Theron is noticeably brighter in twilight looking east (my deck faces east).

Note: I may be confusing contrast, brightness, and color bias. I understand the difference, but I'm not sure if I am any good at discerning the difference (yet).

Neither the sightron nor the theron have CA that I am noticing, and I am moderately susceptable to it. For example, I sold the the really nice Vortex 8x42's a while ago- after seeing the CA one day under tough conditions, I couldnt NOT see it.

The one place the ex7x36 is better is in "ease of use" which could be the exit pupil.

I agree, they arent compact, which is why I snagged the 8x28 excursions and 6x32 katmais. both are just smaller enough to feel smaller, for what thats worth.
 
Note: I may be confusing contrast, brightness, and color bias. I understand the difference, but I'm not sure if I am any good at discerning the difference (yet).

in my experience these optical properties are very difficult to disentangle. All of these factors -- brightness, contrast, color bias, transmission curves, sharpness/resolution, etc -- all mix together when forming the overall perception of the image's "pop" and "sharpness".

for example, when I compared the Vortex Viper 8x32 HD to the Zen-Ray 8x43 ED3, it was clear to me that the Viper was "sharper". Looking at distant blades of grass, there was simply more "pop" and definition to the edges. Same thing was true when I compared the Viper 6x32 to the Fury 6.5x32 the other day as I related in my recent post. But was this due to a literal difference in resolution? Or was it a different in contrast which just made the edges stand out more? Or was it due to the difference in color bias, with the every-so-slightly warmer Viper just causing the reds to pop a bit more and thus enhance the perception of the edges? I have no way of determining this without a more sophisticated testing regimen.
 
BrightIdea, interesting comments, thank you again so much! Looks like you collect quite a few binoculars! I will have to look into those 8x32's. The Sightron brand seems to be big in the UK, but I don't see as much about it here in the States. I've not heard of Theron, so that will be interesting to learn about.

I'd like to try the new Vortex Talon HD 8x32 when it comes out, as do a lot of people. The price is a bit above what I would like to pay, though. A year from now, I bet the price will come down. And if the quality isn't up to par, the price will really come down, but if that is so, then I guess it won't matter, haha.

Eitanaltman, very good points you have made. There is actually a lot to the various aspects of sharpness. Coming from the realm of photography, I have looked at many MTF charts and lens reviews. The MTF usually shows two aspects, the "sagittal" curve, and the "meridional" curve...as well as curves for wide open aperture, and usually f/8. Also they are usually in 10 and 30 line pairs / per millimeter...although the sharpest lenses benefit from the MTF 60 l/p/mm. There are also more subtle aspects to sharpness (and of optical quality in general) that are more difficult to measure with test equipment, and are usually just described subjectively, from what I have seen. One of my fast prime lenses has a bit of "bokeh fringing", as do many fast primes. It gets annoying at times, and I have yet to research if there are any post processing workarounds in Photoshop, etc. PS is so complex, I have yet to make full use of it...I do enjoy "camera raw" though, and the more basic edit functions within the full PS...as a TIFF file, etc. The sharpening and noise reduction features are very fun to play with...although there are third party programs that are supposedly better than PS for this. BUT I DIGRESS...

With binoculars, obviously a huge factor is the prism, its design and implementation, coatings, glass quality, etc...besides the degree to which the inside of the barrel is treated to inhibit reflected light.

These Bushnell Excursions seem to have no such treatment, as I look inside them while holding them to bright light or daylight. I can easily see the ribbed structure inside the barrel, as well as stray light underneath the prisms, where they don't completely touch the inside of the barrel.

Incidentally, I think I have asked this in other threads, but do you guys know of any good websites which publish independent tests and measurements of binoculars, besides allbinos.com? I found them via google search. They're located in Poland...and their tests look really cool. But, I made the mistake of mentioning them to someone in a forum at one of the online retailers here in the USA, and got my head bitten off about it. I have yet to reply to that person, who runs their forum, but after I have settled on what binoculars to keep...I will be laying into her, but good! She's of the opinion that anyone who doesn't buy Nikon Monarchs is an idiot. She even deleted the thread, with only my original post, and her single reply...after only two days of me having started it! I tried emailing her about it, and she is such a coward, she didn't reply. I have a distaste for control freaks who compensate for other shortcomings by pretending to be powerful online...as I'm sure many of you folks do as well.
 
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