Two questions from Trondheim, Norway, Sept 15: Sprawk or Goshawk? and which 1C "Comic" tern? (1 Viewer)

[S_Man]

Clean your glasses, definitely barred and definitely Spar.

You don't need glasses to see it's striated. I'm talking about the OP not the other examples.

 

[Andy Adcock]

You don't need glasses to see it's striated. I'm talking about the OP not the other examples.

The OP is barred.

 

[01101001]

@S_Man Sorry for making you revisit this thread again by my extensive postings above. I think the proportions should be the clincher: the way I now try to do it is take a definite Goshawk and resize it so that the wingspan is the same, and--then--look at the resulting bulk of the body, or resize it so that the body width is the same, and--then--look at the wingspan.

Plus triangular secondaries and wing breadth. However, all this still needs care, as you can see in my posts above.

 

[tconzemi]

You don't need glasses to see it's striated. I'm talking about the OP not the other examples.

What part of the body is striated in your opinion?

 

[01101001]

There are those streaks on the belly, but I think these are creases of feathering (the barring apparently visible on the breast appears much finer)

 

[TheBlackGrouse]

Is it me? I keep looking at the first picture that, when zoomed in, shows a striated neck/upper breast and a barred lower breast and belly. Or is it an artefact?

Apart from the proportions, this is not wat is called 'irregularly patterned' like a juvenile Sparrowhawk, these are the typical heavy stripes of a juvenile Goshawk, in this case a second-year bird in transition to the adult plumage. The shape is more Sparrowhawk but the pattern doesn't match.

 

[smiths]

The OP photo was taken in mid September. Juvenile goshawks moult their body feathers in spring/summer of their 2nd calendar year, starting in May. By July already they don't show any stripes on the underparts anymore, so you must be seeing things in the (poor) photos that are simply not there.

 

[dantheman]

Was the tern id now completely resolved??

(And it being 'commic tern', not 'comic tern' - the former being an amalgamation of the words 'common and arctic', the latter a stand-up or otherwise funny bird at a pub or the Edinburgh Fringe Festival ... ;-) )

 

[TheBlackGrouse]

The OP photo was taken in mid September. Juvenile goshawks moult their body feathers in spring/summer of their 2nd calendar year, starting in May. By July already they don't show any stripes on the underparts anymore, so you must be seeing things in the (poor) photos that are simply not there.

Better read my post and look first before you give an answer like this, there are stripes. Click for zoom.

 

[tconzemi]

Better read my post and look first before you give an answer like this, there are stripes. Click for zoom.

There is not a single feather with stripes anywhere, just some bold artefact stripes

 

[TheBlackGrouse]

There is not a single feather with stripes anywhere, just some bold artefact stripes

Ok, then it's a very well-placed artefact that only appears on the neck and upper breast and stops exactly where the barring begins.

In all my years of post-processing I never saw something like that. It must be done on purpose (can't imagine that) or it is real, unless someone can explain it.

 

[lou salomon]

Keep low guys. There's some confusion going on by a bunch of resurrected threads concerning both Sprawks and Goshawks. The bird in the OP is an adult female Sparrowhawk and shows some streaks on chin like most adult female Sprawks do. In juveniles it can be extended to breast. The question here is if whole underparts are streaked like in a young Gos or not, and the underparts in this bird are clearly barred. 011, again, look at the exact shape of the bars in 2cy autumn Goshawk and compare with the more regular ones in female Sparrowhawk. Many Accipiter pics can be misleading (as we know from Ken's posts) as they adopt different shapes in flight depending on angle and on how strong wings are bent. Not so in the pics in the OP, though.

 

[dantheman]

Ok, then it's a very well-placed artefact that only appears on the neck and upper breast and stops exactly where the barring begins.

In all my years of post-processing I never saw something like that. It must be done on purpose (can't imagine that) or it is real, unless someone can explain it.

There is also barring (or stripes), or blotching at least on the blue sky ...

 

[TheBlackGrouse]

Keep low guys. There's some confusion going on by a bunch of resurrected threads concerning both Sprawks and Goshawks. The bird in the OP is an adult female Sparrowhawk and shows some streaks on chin like most adult female Sprawks do. In juveniles it can be extended to breast. The question here is if whole underparts are streaked like in a young Gos or not, and the underparts in this bird are clearly barred. 011, again, look at the exact shape of the bars in 2cy autumn Goshawk and compare with the more regular ones in female Sparrowhawk. Many Accipiter pics can be misleading (as we know from Ken's posts) as they adopt different shapes in flight depending on angle and on how strong wings are bent. Not so in the pics in the OP, though.

Appreciate you taking the time to explain, and yes it's a Sparrowhawk. I was a bit surprised that the streaks were not mentioned or did not seem to exist. They go quite far for a standard adult, I've seen juveniles with this so I wonder if it's a young adult with some striping left. For me it's all about the correct identification, that's why I joined this site recently. And we all make mistakes, when in a hurry, when we're tired and especially when you're not a native speaker like me. It is surprisingly difficult to find the right 'birding' words in English although I have the Collins and Forsman in front of me

 

[01101001]

My confusion used to stem mostly from misinterpreting features other than barring (I didn't even notice the streaking on the chin).