Warsaw, Poland, 09.10 (1 Viewer)

[01101001]

Habitat: meadows with bushes, a forest and human settlements nearby.

1. A Barbary dove (not a feral pigeon on head and bill shape?).
2. A(n unidentifiable?) brown finch (twite: conspicuous white wing bars, darker upperparts, small beak, more deeply forked tail, bulk; linnet: time of the year, no obvious yellow on the beak (the vague purplish cast to the front is just an artifact, I'm afraid)).
3. A female sparrowhawk. (Despite having read about it in a few threads, I still don't get the wing formula thing. I do, however, notice sharp tail corners, a small head and, perhaps, a less bulky shape overall. What's more, it is noticeably larger than the hooded crow flying next to it, which would make it a female? Unfortunately, it's still all guesswork for me. By the way, how do I know if it's mobbing behaviour on behalf of the crow or not?)

 

[Butty]

1-3. Domestic pigeon (ie not any Streptopelia) - deformed-by-selective-breeding-type one.
4. Serin?
5-etc. Sparrowhawk: slender thing with sharp tail-corners, as you say. You can't judge the size-differential because you can't tell the relative distances, Not sure what your question is about mobbing: corvids routinely mob raptors.

 

[01101001]

Is it possible to say if it's a form of rock dove or African collared dove (a Barbary dove) based on its appearance (slender neck, funny bill, big eye)?

 

[01101001]

The crow was quite close to the sparrowhawk most of the time.

 

[Butty]

I edited in an extra bit while you were typing. 'Domestic pigeon' means a selectively-bred rock dove.

The crow was quite close to the sparrowhawk most of the time.

Can't comment on that. My impression is that, in the photos, the crow is further away - but there's no way to know. If you were watching chiefly through the camera lens it's pretty much impossible for you to tell either. Anyway, it's a sparrowhawk and crows are bigger - so, if your impression was the reverse of that, then your impression was wrong. It's very very easy to muck-up size-assessment for reasons that may be mysterious - even in (apparent) direct comparisons.

 

[dantheman]

I edited in an extra bit while you were typing. 'Domestic pigeon' means a selectively-bred rock dove.

Can't comment on that. My impression is that, in the photos, the crow is further away - but there's no way to know. If you were watching chiefly through the camera lens it's pretty much impossible for you to tell either. Anyway, it's a sparrowhawk and crows are bigger - so, if your impression was the reverse of that, then your impression was wrong. It's very very easy to muck-up size-assessment for reasons that may be mysterious - even in (apparent) direct comparisons.

To be honest a large female Sparrowhawk can be, or can appear larger than a Carrion/Hooded Crow (which have a size range too)

 

[Butty]

To be honest a large female Sparrowhawk can be, or can appear larger than a Carrion/Hooded Crow (which have a size range too)

I'm fine if you argue that one out with Svensson.

 

[dantheman]

I'm fine if you argue that one out with Svensson.

Not to get into an argument but depends on whether you are looking at weight, wingspan, length or apparent size/bulk when birding in the field ...

 

[Butty]

wingspan, length

Them.

 

[01101001]

Before taking the photos I took a while to look through my bins. At one point (not photographed) the crow got so close to the sparrowhawk that I was wondering if they were gonna fight each other, but they didn't. Perhaps the crow wasn't exactly smaller, but what I can say is that it surely wasn't so strikingly bigger as it appears to be in some photos on the internet. As it was said, maybe it was the crow that wasn't fully grown?

 

[Butty]

maybe it was the crow that wasn't fully grown?

Fledged birds are much the same size as adults.

 

[01101001]

Fledged birds are much the same size as adults.

Oh, snap.

 

[01101001]

Fledged birds are much the same size as adults.

Some of them--even 2cy+ birds--are smaller than some others (the bird in the middle of the first photo and on the left in the second photo, which is moulting its tail). In the first photo, it's even smaller than the Hooded Crow behind it. I could've taken better shots, but the crows are gone now.

 

[Butty]

Fledged birds are much the same size as adults. There may be trivial age- or sex-related variation, but a) individual variation will often be greater, and b) variation apparent in photos may be due to all sorts of causes (even inexplicable ones) other than actual differences in body-size (e.g. position, posture, feather-ruffling, etc). The first requirement in judging size is, of course, to have another bird alongside, but - sadly - experience teaches that even that doesn't guarantee a correct appreciation of the facts.

 

[Alexander Stöhr]

Hello,

I agree with with Butty, I just wanted to add, that in Hooded/Carrion Crow the way the trousers and/or belly feathering are ruffled (or not), is regular the most important singular effect, that changes percieved size impression in an individual bird.
Your pictures are a good example for this imo. Tfs!

I was alerted to this when looking for the mentioned ID-feature between Rook and Carrion Crow

 

[tconzemi]

That accipiter looks very much juvenile Gos to my eyes

 

[01101001]

The one in the middle and the one at the back flew together, so, yes, probably individual variation. Although there also is a slight difference in the size of the head and the length of the bill--something I also noticed before pursuing these two crows to take the photo above (and different tail moulting strategies?).

 

[01101001]

That accipiter looks very much juvenile Gos to my eyes

Some more discussion about 'my' bird in another thread: Goshawk ? W France.

 

[01101001]

Some more discussion about 'my' bird in another thread: Goshawk ? W France.

So, it's 2 for Gos, 2 for Sprawk and nil for me. I tried to nail down the key ID features in this and the other thread, but I still have doubts. A Goshawk would be nothing unusual at this location judging by eBird records.

 

[Val35]

That accipiter looks very much juvenile Gos to my eyes

Agree...