Which Harrier? (3 Viewers)

[JANJ]

Yes, shorther wings and tail in juveniles, compared to adults (and to show some very good images)-

and check these for structure:

http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?id=listpictures&species_id=184

JanJ

 

[gerdwichers8]

Lovely stuff Xeno, they are good and objective enough to show a narrower wing for a juvenile male Hen than a female. A bit poor for this case not to show the variation which is in the species themselves, I even called them nicknames last winter for their own typical individual features.
Again, the features for the body and tail and the head (small headed in Mont, big headed in Hen) are ignored in your reply.

But both features for the head, body and tail and how these are in proportion with the wing, are generally absent with all who want to plead some positive ID

You guys forget the negative

 

[pianoman]

Am loving this thread, especially now it's back on track.

Had it down as "not hen" from the slim wings and small neat rump patch, but looking at the pictures in the previous post I see how difficult it is.

Hope the ID is nailed before this thread dies; it's better than 3 seasons of "Lost"

 

[jc001]

Am loving this thread, especially now it's back on track.

Me too,the way some of the real contributors just brushed aside the bull***t and are still trying to ID the bird is pretty cool i think.

I'll be sure to show my girlfreind,it might come in handy for a subject in her psychology course.
Or maybe she can put some of the behaviour into neat little easy to understand categories for me.

Im sure we all make mistakes or get misunderstood sometimes,but some non contributers (like me...whoops just cant help jumping into a thread purely to stick the boot in,or to have a good stir...stating the obvious and trying to blow things all out of proportion.

Maybe im just jealous,and not eloquent enough to do such things even if i wanted to.

Theres some nice examples of a kind of birders/BF pecking order too,purely knowledge based probably..hopefully.

 

[gerdwichers8]

The Kestrel is more like a Merlin: only its colors are telling us what it is.

 

[gerdwichers8]

I started think about the deformed appearance of the Kestrel: what would that mean to that Harrier?

 

[gerdwichers8]

The Kestrel appears abnormally short in bodylength and tail.
In the video processor, the calculations that have to do with proportions in the feedback are not fully accurate.
If, and it probably is, the cause, this subject bird shows a ratio in body length which can not be comprehended, this may well and somehow be the cause of it.
This can get my mind clean and for the bird when this obstacle is removed: full pull!

 

[halftwo]

I've just managed to download the video - computers were never my strong suit!
Anyway well said JC001 - can't get my head round certain replies here. Are we trying to help identify this & pass on info. to the less-well informed (& I include myself in that) or just scoring points. Some comments to others (on other threads too) are appalling) stear clear of running Birding Trips those of you who have no patience what-so-ever.
So; back to the bird... By stopping the vid. at various places you can see a dark panel on the secondary underside as in Flight ID of European Raptors P.94 fig.39E - ie Monty's, never Hen. But, Grosser, this also puts the bird on the young side of adult (#61 point (6)).
The dark bars along the secondaries also appear to end at that dark panel, again Monty's ,not as P90 B (fig 37). And as you point out Grosser there is no evidence of male Hen here. (same fig.C eg.)
If you want to see Tern-like flight (Gerdwichers8) take a look around six minutes 45 seconds as the bird gains height. There it is.
Yes, I am puzzled by the tail bars - & the rump size, but on the latter: raptors sometimes fluff these out & this could obscure the bar nearest the rump.
And I was wrong to suggest this bird could have just had a large meal - why then would it be hunting!
The Kestrel looks like a Kestrel to me - very slightly shortened by some video effect perhaps, but a Kestrel it obviously is.

 

[gerdwichers8]

!
The Kestrel looks like a Kestrel to me - very slightly shortened by some video effect perhaps, but a Kestrel it obviously is.

I was not putting the ID of the Kestrel under discussion here, but using it as a reference bird for the harrier.
It being a Kestrel; what is abnormal in the appearance of it? Exactly the body built and tail! (Thats THE feature in which the abnormality of it, forms an obstacle for a full pull Montague's)

 

[nirofo]

Could some kind soul please upload this video to a file hosting service other than rapidshare, for some reason rapidshare wont let me download, keeps saying you have reached your download limit, please try again later. I've been trying later for the last 2 days?

nirofo.

 

[Andrew Rowlands]

Could some kind soul please upload this video to a file hosting service other than rapidshare, for some reason rapidshare wont let me download, keeps saying you have reached your download limit, please try again later. I've been trying later for the last 2 days?

nirofo.

Try clearing your cookies

 

[gerdwichers8]

I personally would prefer this over most Montague's : Awesome!

http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?id=showpicture&picture_id=11148

But I ll take care not to overrule a 'first' for Northern Ireland

 

[gerdwichers8]

If the vid is original, this record has to be accepted; it's too strong not to.

And the little boy has to say 2.

 

[nirofo]

Try clearing your cookies

Tried it many times, tried removing everything to do with rapidshare, still no joy! Tried using a proxy switcher, can find an address it will accept, can get it to start the download but it's so slow it's not worth the effort. I don't have a problem with any other file hosting service such as megaupload, it's just rapidshare?

nirofo.

 

[nirofo]

Managed to download the video at last, thank's to Andrew Rowlands, here's a new link for anyone who want's it.

http://www52.megaupload.com/files/204c3d4332457581f94b40ce6bf311de/Harrier.wmv

nirofo.

 

[tittletattler]

Hi all,

I emailed a couple of the images to Dick Forsman for comment and he agreed that the bird was an adult female Montagu's Harrier.

Cheers,

Andy.

 

[gerdwichers8]

Did he write why he thought so? I mean, did he motivate his thing, or just call it the name..
If he mentioned some more then just the name, I am certain we all would love to read about it.

 

[tittletattler]

Hi,

He forwarded a brief summary as to why it was an adult female Montagu's. This included the pattern of the secondaries on the upper and underwing and also the wing formula (ie, short P6).

Cheers,

Andy.

 

[gerdwichers8]

But did he mention anything about the taillength and uppertailcoverts, the appearance in Northern Ireland..

 

[tittletattler]

But did he mention anything about the taillength and uppertailcoverts, the appearance in Northern Ireland..

It wasn't necessary. I believe that the two features that you've mentioned are variable anyway.

For peace of mind I would recommend that you email him yourself. Type in 'Dick Forsman' into google and his website will pop up. You'll find his email address there.

He must get many requests for help with ID so it may be best to make your email as brief as possible.

Good luck,

Cheers,

Andy.

Ps - I've been looking for a good shot of a 2nd calendar male Hen for ages so the link you posted above was much appreciated.