Would anybody know, if Wood Warblers have had a good breeding season this year in the UK/Europe? (1 Viewer)

[KenM]

The reason I ask, is that London has had at least 3x more Autumn migrants through this Autumn than 2021 and I notched up my first and second “ever” in the garden during August within a week of each other in forty years!

 

[WalterRayle]

Dire in the New Forest both this and last year, I believe the population here has dropped from just over 100 pairs in 201 to barely ten pairs in 2023.
So well done with your autumn migrants.
I also heard they've pretty much stopped breeding in former haunts in Devon (Yarner Wood).

 

[WalterRayle]

Dire in the New Forest both this and last year, I believe the population here has dropped from just over 100 pairs in 2010 to barely ten pairs in 2023.
So well done with your autumn migrants.
I also heard they've pretty much stopped breeding in former haunts in Devon (Yarner Wood).

 

[KenM]

Dire in the New Forest both this and last year, I believe the population here has dropped from just over 100 pairs in 2010 to barely ten pairs in 2023.
So well done with your autumn migrants.
I also heard they've pretty much stopped breeding in former haunts in Devon (Yarner Wood).

Very sad to hear am painfully aware of their decline, thus was wondering if London’s passage of sibilatrix this year might have been of Scandinavian/Eastern Europe origin?

Cheers

 

[dwatsonbirder]

One local wood I monitor in the FoD has gone from 5 territories (2021) to none this year. Other locations I visit locally have seen the numbers drop significantly between 2021 and 2022, with a near absence in 2023. One such example is a formerly excellent area where a regular 3 mile loop held a minimum of 12 singing birds in 2021, and two separate individuals on single occasions this spring. Absolutely dire.

Did the birds in your garden occur during that period of high pressure Ken? It seems quite likely that they would have a Scandinavian origin if so - my understanding is that most populations in northern Europe filter through Italy or Greece on their southbound, returning in a clockwise loop. UK populations seem to have left breeding areas by the end of July.
Some interesting papers here:

https://datarepository.movebank.org/entities/datapackage/cf6fc72a-147a-4516-965e-80eef80033e3

Autumn migration and wintering site of a wood warbler Phylloscopus sibilatrix breeding in Denmark identified using geolocation - Animal Biotelemetry

Background Basic knowledge of detailed spatiotemporal migration patterns is lacking for most migratory bird species. Using the smallest available geolocator, we aim to map autumn migration and wintering areas of north European wood warblers Phylloscopus sibilatrix and compare the spatiotemporal...

animalbiotelemetry.biomedcentral.com

 

[Owene]

which part of the forest was that Daniel, I had three seperate birds when I went (unsuccesfully) for the iberian chiffchaff near cinderford last spring. Was about to post that they seemed to be doing ok there.

 

[dwatsonbirder]

which part of the forest was that Daniel, I had three seperate birds when I went (unsuccesfully) for the iberian chiffchaff near cinderford last spring. Was about to post that they seemed to be doing ok there.

That population around Soudley (where the Iberian Chiff was) seems stable, but again, the previous spring I had 5 birds around that section of fenced off former clearfell. The large population I referred to is Lightmoor/Spruce Ride area, it is possible that the decline is caused by the maturing of the Sitka spruce plantations they have been breeding in, with the understory becoming too dense, and insufficient spacing at the canopy level.
The other site is near my home (Littledean), but I can't be more specific than that I'm afraid.
The two trans-saharan "winners" in the last few years seem to be Tree pipit (largely as a result of the regular forestry works) and Spotted flycatcher - I cannot explain the latter, but the same wood where Wood Warbler disappeared from went from 2 territories to 7 (!) territories (2020 - 2023).

 

[KenM]

Yes Dan, during HP on the 13th and 20th of August, my abode backs on to a narrow NE-SW forest/garden corridor and produces many Southbound migs during Aug-Oct.
Interestingly, Willow Warbler nos.were up as well over previous years, as they were at Landguard, Suffolk, perhaps suggesting movement from the near continent, as they too are also in decline in the SEast.

Cheers

 

[Prestdj]

i had one at broadhead clough west yorkshire in late may, in my experiance in the south pennines

1980-1990 localised but easy to find
2000-2010 scarce
2020 to present just odd birds in may to july

its sad that they have declined my area

late may 30 years ago could go birding in late may/june and see wood warbler, pied flycatcher, spotted flycatcher, whinchat, redstart, tree pipit in a evening once breeding birds but now just migrants why? the odd ring ouzel and cuckoo still breed but not as many

whinchat decline in my area i think is down to stonechat which were quite uncommon in the 80s 90s only a winter visitor mainly, all the breeding sites used by whinchats have been now taken over by stonechats as they are now common residents. i suspect climate change, stonechats wintered the climate started to milder so they set up camp, by the time whinchats arrive the stonechats kick them out. just a theory

and twite! lots of twite near me even in winter i can see a flock of nearly 70 in minus 3 snow at 1200ft sea level, they used to leave now they stay the winter

 

[pianoman]

That would make an exciting garden tick for me Ken

 

[KenM]

That would make an exciting garden tick for me Ken

It was singularly THE most exciting grdn.tick for me pianoman.👍

 

[Original PaulE]

There were none singing at Ynys Hyr in the spring, first time I've been there and not heard any. The Staff at Ynys Hyr said they were in the area just not on the reserve! Although we did find other birds around Dolgellau area . I was reading an article earlier which suggested Pied Flycatchers have had a strong year. So a mixed picture.

 

[WalterRayle]

Thirty years ago I used to think nothing of recording up to 15 WoodWarbler on a certain three mile walk in the New Forest, as well as good numbers of Willow Warbler and Chiffchaff, now though none of each species for the past two years, what we have to bear in mind though when thinking about this perceived decline is how the habitat in that area has changed in that time span and most of the habitat is now unsuitable for them to hold territory/breed in hence their absence, there are of course other factors to consider, they do have to fly all the way to Africa and back without incident.

With regards productivity, I've heard from one of the New Forest surveyors that nest cameras show all too frequently nests being disturbed and predated by off the lead dogs (no surprise there really). As for the decline at Yarner I've been given no real explanation by those in the know there.

 

[KenM]

During the ‘70’s they were breeding in London (mostly South of the Thames if memory serves)
We had the very occasional late May/June singing male in Epping Forest, however I don’t believe they ever bred.
I only ever had a single bird on Aug.passage in a tit flock during the ‘70’s (locally), with all other Autumn records for me, coming out of London Parks.
Interestingly, Landguard rang a single Wood Warbler during August as did Portland, suspect records at the former might be irregular, again possibly of Eastern origin.
The two (different) birds that I had a week apart, must give some creedence to inland passage being far greater than perhaps realised and of an Eastern persuasion?
For me, no two years of Autumn passage are the same regarding nos.
This year as last, just a single Pied Fly through with nowt in ‘21 against three in ‘20.
However no comparison with the two unprecedented garden Wood Warblers.

Cheers

 

[Farnboro John]

Thirty years ago I used to think nothing of recording up to 15 WoodWarbler on a certain three mile walk in the New Forest, as well as good numbers of Willow Warbler and Chiffchaff, now though none of each species for the past two years, what we have to bear in mind though when thinking about this perceived decline is how the habitat in that area has changed in that time span and most of the habitat is now unsuitable for them to hold territory/breed in hence their absence, there are of course other factors to consider, they do have to fly all the way to Africa and back without incident.

With regards productivity, I've heard from one of the New Forest surveyors that nest cameras show all too frequently nests being disturbed and predated by off the lead dogs (no surprise there really). As for the decline at Yarner I've been given no real explanation by those in the know there.

I've also heard from the New Forest surveyors and the nest cameras show Weasels, Stoats, Foxes, Badgers, Jays, Magpies and Crows to mention just a few of the predators taking out Wood Warbler nests. The real problem (since all those are nest predators with which the Wood Warber has contended throughout its evolution) is the one you mention in passing: the loss of most of the nesting habitat, which is a thick ground-level understorey. The small size of the remainder makes it all too easy for the predators to search. This is caused by the over-grazing/browsing of the forest by too many deer and ponies.

Dogs are a minor factor if at all.

John

 

[WalterRayle]

I've also heard from the New Forest surveyors and the nest cameras show Weasels, Stoats, Foxes, Badgers, Jays, Magpies and Crows to mention just a few of the predators taking out Wood Warbler nests. The real problem (since all those are nest predators with which the Wood Warber has contended throughout its evolution) is the one you mention in passing: the loss of most of the nesting habitat, which is a thick ground-level understorey. The small size of the remainder makes it all too easy for the predators to search. This is caused by the over-grazing/browsing of the forest by too many deer and ponies.

Dogs are a minor factor if at all.

John

 

[KenM]

I've also heard from the New Forest surveyors and the nest cameras show Weasels, Stoats, Foxes, Badgers, Jays, Magpies and Crows to mention just a few of the predators taking out Wood Warbler nests. The real problem (since all those are nest predators with which the Wood Warber has contended throughout its evolution) is the one you mention in passing: the loss of most of the nesting habitat, which is a thick ground-level understorey. The small size of the remainder makes it all too easy for the predators to search. This is caused by the over-grazing/browsing of the forest by too many deer and ponies.

Dogs are a minor factor if at all.

John

Perhaps a case for bringing back larger carnivores, that might just help to restore “grazers” to a more manageable level.
Methinks it wouldn’t go down too well with the right to roam mob, however one can’t have it all ways!
That said, the influx of Pied Flys in London during the Autumn of 2000 showing a preference for Birch trees in itself might suggest that they were of Scandinavian origin, showing a “greater penetration” inland of Eastern migs. than what might at first be generally appreciated, after a successful breeding season at their point of origin.

 

[WalterRayle]

The over grazing issue has been flagged up by a number of naturalists over the years but the FC and Natural England refuse to acknowledge it because the forest has always been 'that way' You only need to look at Tawny Owl productivity in the forest compared to other woodland sites to see just how bad the situation is regarding their small mammal prey, I think it's said to be about 2.2 chicks per pair while elsewhereI think it's nearer 3-4 per pair. I remember hearing at a NF biodiversity conference how small mammal trapping over the equivalent of 1,500 'trap nights' in NF woodland recorded about two dozen Wood mice. in contrast I once trapped eight Wood mice in my own small back garden in one night not far from 'the forest' proper. In Rory Putman's book on the New Forest he describes 'long grass' in the forest as being 1.5cm high, to everyone else that's short grass. Part of the grazing problem is down to stewardship payments to commoners. in simple terms it's along the lines of something as absurd as they pay £10 to put an animal on the forest and get paid £20 to put an animal out there, so naturally they keep increasing their stock numbers to make a bit more money for nothing and next to nothing is done about it. Foot and mouth showed how unsustainable the system was with many commoners complaining about slaughtering their stock (only because they didn't have enough land themselves to sustain them). As to deer numbers the FC cull every year to keep the known population to I believe, 2,000 head but I have no idea how well they actually monitor the population. Even the cull became less rigorous recently when I heard that the keepers had to buy their own ammunition, and do we get to buy NF venison locally? that's another story.
Something I read recently that concerned me is that the RSPB is considering opening up their new NF reserve Franchises Wood to forest livestock which have historically been excluded, they can kiss goodbye to the Wood Warblers that bred there then (and there used to be a few pairs). and everything else like the invertebrates that relied on not being grazed out of existence. clowns.

 

[WalterRayle]

Perhaps a case for bringing back larger carnivores, that might just help to restore “grazers” to a more manageable level.
Methinks it wouldn’t go down too well with the right to roam mob, however one can’t have it all ways!
That said, the influx of Pied Flys in London during the Autumn of 2000 showing a preference for Birch trees in itself might suggest that they were of Scandinavian origin, showing a “greater penetration” inland of Eastern migs. than what might at first be generally appreciated, after a successful breeding season at their point of origin.

 

[WalterRayle]

Larger carnivores wouldn't go down well with the campers/campsites/ tourism industry, but of course everyone who uses the first for non-natural history reasons forgets it's protected because of certain wildlife species being present and NOT because it's a nice place to let your dog off a lead or go for a bike ride/walk. The other issue is that the livestock are owned so some sort of compensation would be expected for losses to carnivores as it is if one gets run over. I know it was suggested many years ago to get rid of all commoners stock and replace them with European Bison so the areas still gets grazed, then introduce the large carnivores to control them to a point. But it was apparently impractical to do so it would upset the supposed 'tradition of commoning which is another minefield.