Wren, Huatulco - Mexico (1 Viewer)

[Valéry Schollaert]

Hi all.,


I'm sorting some 2021 photos and found a pic of wrens I found in a well wooded village in coastal dry forest around Huatulco (Oaxaca) in Mexico. At first sight, they looked like White-bellied Wren but much larger and longer-tailed. Moreover, it seems White-bellied Wren doesn't not occur there. I checked all possible wren according to a local list, but nothing matches.

Can you help me ?

Many thanks

Valéry, currently in Xpujil (Campeche), Mexico

 

[Brian J Small]

Sinaloa?

 

[kahraba]

It matches Bewick's to me.

 

[Valéry Schollaert]

Sinaloa?

Very nice suggestion ! That would be a range extansion and a lifer for me. However, it seems Sinaola has always stripes on the sides of necks.

 

[Valéry Schollaert]

It matches Bewick's to me.

They are certainly similar indeed, but Bewick's occurs in the mountains only central and southern Mexico, above 1000 meters asl, and that would be the first record on the Pacific coast. That would be then very surprising, especially a breeding pair.

That is exactly why I'm asking help : I didn't find any match in the species known locally, so it might be something special / rare...

 

[njlarsen]

I have not checked photos but what about juvenile banded wren?
Niels

 

[Valéry Schollaert]

I have not checked photos but what about juvenile banded wren?
Niels

Certainly a good suggestion, Niels, but I found only one pic of juvie, and it is spotted on the belly, a characteristic given in BOW text too.

Both where collecting material to build a nest, making the probability that they are juvies very low IMO.

 

[njlarsen]

Certainly a good suggestion, Niels, but I found only one pic of juvie, and it is spotted on the belly, a characteristic given in BOW text too.

Both where collecting material to build a nest, making the probability that they are juvies very low IMO.



View attachment 1475188

I had impression of something less strongly marked from (mis?)reading Howell and Webb.
Niels

 

[Valéry Schollaert]

I had impression of something less strongly marked from (mis?)reading Howell and Webb.
Niels

It might be the conclusion at the end, but if guess such unmark pattern would then be a sign of very young birds, then how can they be building nest ? I visited the spot regularly (that was in February), it was not just a casual behaviour, they have been building at least for a week.

 

[njlarsen]

I took the ebird list for Oaxaca and clicked the link for every wren to look at a few photos. I Focused in on the two initial proposals, and including looking at bill shape, Bewick's wren seems the best fit. I do not know how high the elevation is around San Juan Mixtepec, which seems to be the closest location with regular observations?
Niels

 

[Valéry Schollaert]

I took the ebird list for Oaxaca and clicked the link for every wren to look at a few photos. I Focused in on the two initial proposals, and including looking at bill shape, Bewick's wren seems the best fit. I do not know how high the elevation is around San Juan Mixtepec, which seems to be the closest location with regular observations?
Niels

Niels, in addition of the range extention (see joined map, red spot shows where my birds were taken), altitude is really an important point. San Juan Mixtepec is at 1 750 meters asl.

Not impossible, but we need to be very certain to publish such a record ! Especially 2 individuals, and breeding ! Not a simple juvie vagrant in post-breeding season.

 

[THE_FERN]

I'm not familiar with the species but I was struck by the impression that Bewick's bill appears quite gracile---unlike these wrens'

 

[Butty]

Bewick's bill appears quite gracile---unlike these wrens'

You mean that you don't think the bills of the OP's birds look thin? I do.

 

[njlarsen]

I do not know what it is. I would however say, compare with these two

ML50278361 - Bewick's Wren - Macaulay Library

Macaulay Library ML50278361; © Christine Jacobs; Orange, California, United States

macaulaylibrary.org

ML84885811 - Sinaloa Wren - Macaulay Library

Macaulay Library ML84885811; © Bradley Hacker 🦜; Santa Cruz, Arizona, United States

macaulaylibrary.org

The first one Bewicks, second Sinaloa. The second has a bill shorter and a little more curved to my eyes and the op birds seems closer if not perfect for the first of these. Those where the alternatives best in line with the plumage we can see.
Niels

 

[THE_FERN]

You mean that you don't think the bills of the OP's birds look thin? I do.

No I think the bills of the op birds are significantly more robust than images of Bewick's---including the one Neils just posted

 

[Valéry Schollaert]

I'm not familiar with the species but I was struck by the impression that Bewick's bill appears quite gracile---unlike these wrens'

Yeah, you can see here my pics of Bewick's Wren from Oaxaca, so the sub-species most likely involved in Huatulco if the species would occur there. Colour, thickness of bill, tail pattern are all different, aren't they ?

Personal Bewicks's Wren photos

 

[Valéry Schollaert]

I do not know what it is. I would however say, compare with these two

ML50278361 - Bewick's Wren - Macaulay Library

Macaulay Library ML50278361; © Christine Jacobs; Orange, California, United States

macaulaylibrary.org

ML84885811 - Sinaloa Wren - Macaulay Library

Macaulay Library ML84885811; © Bradley Hacker 🦜; Santa Cruz, Arizona, United States

macaulaylibrary.org

The first one Bewicks, second Sinaloa. The second has a bill shorter and a little more curved to my eyes and the op birds seems closer if not perfect for the first of these. Those where the alternatives best in line with the plumage we can see.
Niels

We have this streaked sides of neck that seems diagnostic, Niels, and my birds, both, don't show that. I've no experience, and would love to add Sinaola on my lifelist... but I don't manage to convince myself.

 

[njlarsen]

Might be another species completely. As I said, I did not really like the bill for being a Sinaloa.

Do you know who is the local ebird reviewer in the area? sometimes a local person can see things us from long distance cannot.
Niels

 

[Valéry Schollaert]

Might be another species completely. As I said, I did not really like the bill for being a Sinaloa.

Do you know who is the local ebird reviewer in the area? sometimes a local person can see things us from long distance cannot.
Niels

I published on a Mexican birding group, and a latino-american birding group. We about at the same level that here. Talking about Bewick and Sinaola, no conclusion so far.

 

[THE_FERN]

I published on a Mexican birding group, and a latino-american birding group. We about at the same level that here. Talking about Bewick and Sinaola, no conclusion so far.

What are the reasons against Sinaloa? Seems more like that to me