Bat in Tuscany Italy ID please (1 Viewer)

My brother-in-law took these pictures of bats flying around their house near Vetulonia in Tuscany. About 200 m above sea level, very rural, wooded and undisturbed. At dusk for about half an hour on several nights, Only 2 or 3 bats on any sighting. Looking in Bats of Britain & Europe by Schober & Grimmberger it may be a member of the Vespertilionidae on the evident short enclosed tail. Am I right? All ideas very welcome. Thanks Pete.

I can't give a positive ID but its worth commenting on what can be seen.

Its quite highly coloured underneath so you can pretty much discount the Myotis bats I would think.

The wings appear relatively narrow and I get a general sense that its not a tiny bat, so perhaps not a pip of any species (though Nathusius's is longer-winged, it is also clearly paler underneath).

I started to think of maybe a Serotine but the wings ought to appear wider (broader chord) in that case. The tail extending beyond the membrane (just visible) is good for that though.

I haven't seen Leisler's flying but I would have expected a longer, more attentuated rear end more like a Noctule in that case (it absolutely isn't a Nocute, not long headed or long tailed enough).

Enough of what it isn't (or may not be). Somebody else's turn.

John

Hi John, thanks for the info. Lawrence(brother-in-Law who took photo) first said Blackbird size !! I put him off the idea that it was a fruit bat and got him down to Starling. Still far too big I guess though as you say it does look to be one of the larger types. Interesting to see if anyone else is brave enough to give it a go. Thanks for trying ,Pete

Looking at Serotine in flight it clearly shows the free tail tip as in those photos but as you say John you would expect the chord to be broader and Leisler's certainly has a more attenuated rear and again it is what you can't see that would make all the difference,Noctule and Leisler's both have a mushroom shaped tragus but that is unrealistic to expect photos of that degree so i'm unsure as well but out of all the possibilities,dare i stick my neck out and say Serotine?.....hmmmm over to someone else!

Dave.

Hi Dave, thanks for the extra info. Guess Serotine will be it. Are they fairly common in Tuscany? Regards Pete.

Hi Pete.

As far as i am aware the Serotine has quite a wide european distribution but is in decline in density.Not 100% sure of the status within Tuscany or other regions of Italy but it is recorded from there and the likes of Spain,France,Holland,Germany and parts of eastern europe.

Dave.

The below link shows the current distribution of Serotine bat.

http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/7911/0/rangemap

Dave.

Thanks Dave that's really interesting. I'll pass on the info to Lawrence and though he is in the UK now he will return to Italy and perhaps he can get some improved images of the bats. Regards, Pete