Ten Spoonbills fledge at Holkham NNR (1 Viewer)

[Rare Bird Alert]

Following the news that Spoonbills had successfully set up a colony at Holkham NNR earlier in the year it has now been confirmed that a total of 10 young have fledged, includes exclusive video footage.

Full article and footage here

 

[Dimitris]

That's great news.

Edit: They nearly doubled their population.

D.

 

[Pam_m]

Fantastic news and well done to all at Holkham NNR!:t:

 

[John o'Sullivan]

Why is it fantastic news?

All this movement of birds Northwards is further evidence of global warming. All these breeding Herons, cettis warblers, dartford warblers, hobbies, avocets, med gulls wintering chiff chaffs and blackcaps etc etc.

Somehow conservationists get gloomy when U.K. stuff goes north but like to claim the credit when species from the continent move north.

All evidence that the climate is changing and with it the geographical distribution of species. 20 years ago loads of stuff was further south.

It is only due to Global warming that they are even close enough to regularly cross the channel let alone find conditions suitable for them to stay here to breed.

If people adopt the principle that human moderated change is unnatural and bad then this is unnatural and bad. Just because a species is capable of taking advantage of human moderated change and flying here does not make it any more "natural" than a species attaching itself to the bottom of a boat and being moved here or a species sitting on a boat and hitching a ride.

Of course as with DDT birds are obvious indicators of environmental change.

The real danger and the conservation "disaster" comes from e.g. 1/3rd of the Russian wheat harvest going up in flames, the intensity of the monsoon and huricane season's, the droughts in Africa and Australia, the raising of sea levels etc, etc.

If global warming is bad then the indicators of global warming are also bad.

 

[Richard Klim]

Why is it fantastic news?

John, one way or another, I've usually argued against you on BF. But this time I'm 100% with you. It's just like congratulating ourselves on the arrival of Cattle Egret or Little Bittern as if climate change represents a major conservation success story!

Richard

 

[chris23565]

Can't remember the last time we had a decent summer, but don't worry climate change is coming and one day Stoke on Trent will be a desert!!

And for all those thinking the sooner the better for Stoke on Trent, no it aint that bad honest

 

[JCLynn]

Global Warming? What an old chestnut!
Taint nowt new. The English Channel was created via Global Warming, and that was quite a few years before tesco even thought of double points on unleaded.
Of course, 'global warming' is a tad fifferent now and us humans are not helping much. It's good to see a few of the 'warm weather birds' setting up home here in the UK but I have to agree with you John, its at a price.
We do have to remember though, that climate is not as much a factor with regards to the success of new breeding species in the UK. I believe that suitable habitat and habitat maintainence is much more of a key stone.

 

[Kev23]

The "fantastic news" then would be that they were actually successful; If a species is, for whatever reason, expanding it's breeding range then surely we can celebrate the fact it is managing to adapt.

I do, however, agree with the previous posts highlighting the whole picture as being somewhat troubling.

 

[Isurus]

Why is it fantastic news?

All this movement of birds Northwards is further evidence of global warming. All these breeding Herons, cettis warblers, dartford warblers, hobbies, avocets, med gulls wintering chiff chaffs and blackcaps etc etc.

Somehow conservationists get gloomy when U.K. stuff goes north but like to claim the credit when species from the continent move north.

All evidence that the climate is changing and with it the geographical distribution of species. 20 years ago loads of stuff was further south.

It is only due to Global warming that they are even close enough to regularly cross the channel let alone find conditions suitable for them to stay here to breed.

If people adopt the principle that human moderated change is unnatural and bad then this is unnatural and bad. Just because a species is capable of taking advantage of human moderated change and flying here does not make it any more "natural" than a species attaching itself to the bottom of a boat and being moved here or a species sitting on a boat and hitching a ride.

Of course as with DDT birds are obvious indicators of environmental change.

The real danger and the conservation "disaster" comes from e.g. 1/3rd of the Russian wheat harvest going up in flames, the intensity of the monsoon and huricane season's, the droughts in Africa and Australia, the raising of sea levels etc, etc.

If global warming is bad then the indicators of global warming are also bad.

moved north due to global warming? correlation does not equal causation; don't forget spoonbill were uk residents up to the 1600s when they were hunted out.

 

[Pam_m]

Why is it fantastic news?

A simple answer to your question is they successfully bred...whether it be here in the UK or Timbuctoo I would still have been delighted to hear the news. They chose Holkham NNR to breed this year for the suitable habitat so praise must go to all concerned for their excellent management of the reserve! So to me it is 'fantastic news'! Any successful bird nesting has to be good news!

 

[Amarillo]

Spoonbills colonising has nothing to do with global warming. A) they bred here hundreds of years ago and B) our climate hasn't changed in the last few years when they colonised

Birds change their ranges for many different reasons. Collared doves spread from the middle-east right across Europe in the space of a few decades, was that climate change? Was the climate in the UK in 1953 (when it first bred) similar to the climate in its native Turkey? Some species are simply successful in colonising new niches, little and cattle egrets are now doing what collared doves did and have been successful colonists in other continents. We should congratulate ourselves on the arrivals of all these new heron type species because they are arriving because we are creating the habitat for them, NOT because of climate change.

If our climate is warming why have warm weather species like wryneck and red backed shrike recently gone extinct in Britain?

I'm no climate change denier, but it annoys me when people exaggerate and equate perfectly natural things with it.

 

[Himalaya]

I dont agree much with the climate cange theory much at the moment. The Hobby has seen numbers multiply and its range increase northwards over the last 10 years. There has been no halt to its range expansion when the last 4 summers have been pretty bad in the UK.

I am glad many people pointed the fact Spoonbill's bred hundreds of years ago. The fact that they have attempted to breed in the North West of England a few times does not mean it is warmer there than the southern locations they neglected.

The vast majority of birds that have spread into Britain recently are wetland birds and they have spread because the qality of our wetlands have increased here.

Spoonbills ae beautful birds. I cannot wait for the day they become common here. Although who knows they may breed the once and not bother again.

 

[Pete Mella]

Spoonbills colonising has nothing to do with global warming. A) they bred here hundreds of years ago and B) our climate hasn't changed in the last few years when they colonised

Birds change their ranges for many different reasons. Collared doves spread from the middle-east right across Europe in the space of a few decades, was that climate change? Was the climate in the UK in 1953 (when it first bred) similar to the climate in its native Turkey? Some species are simply successful in colonising new niches, little and cattle egrets are now doing what collared doves did and have been successful colonists in other continents. We should congratulate ourselves on the arrivals of all these new heron type species because they are arriving because we are creating the habitat for them, NOT because of climate change.

If our climate is warming why have warm weather species like wryneck and red backed shrike recently gone extinct in Britain?

I'm no climate change denier, but it annoys me when people exaggerate and equate perfectly natural things with it.

I don't think people should jump to conclusions with it, but there is a very recent trend of southern species moving north that I think deserves a closer study to assess its correlation with climate changes. The problem is, as Amarillo says, that there are many other factors at play, including the successes and expansion of wetland nature reserves.

Saying that, though, there does seem to be a lot of birds moving northwards at the moment. If it was just spoonbills, or just cattle egrets, or just glossy ibises, or just Cetti's warblers, it could simply be a collared dove-style expansion. But together it's a worrying trend, not because of the nice birds we're gaining, but the problems northern birds will have at the other end.

 

[Hotspur]

Correlation does not mean relationship. For instance Collared Dove moved across Europe due to changes in farming making a new niche for them. This niche is largely disappearing as farming becomes more efficient and numbers are now decreasing as such. As has been mentioned Spoonbills are reclaiming lost range. All the recent imports seem to be waterbirds inc Cetti's, Spoonbill, Little Egret, Purple Heron, Little Bittern. Coinciding with massive increases in wetland and reedbed restoration in southern England. Where are the other mediterranean species which are not associated with wetlands? Why are Rollers & Hoopoes rarer now than previously if the climate has ameliorated? Why don't southern breeding birds of prey suddenly start roaming the lizard? Climate change may be a factor but at the moment it is only correlation and I would be prepared to speculate that it is wetland restoration and not climate change that has caused these changes. I would not rule out climate change having an effect however.

 

[Bubbs]

Am I missing something re this global warming?....worst winter in years and another **** summer. Insert the words crap for the four stars

I think the success of Spoonbills breeding is a great addition.

 

[Pete Mella]

Am I missing something re this global warming?....worst winter in years and another **** summer. Insert the words crap for the four stars

I think the success of Spoonbills breeding is a great addition.

Actually I believe nasty, wet summers are exactly what was predicted with climate change in Britain, not balmy Mediterranean ones, sadly!

 

[John o'Sullivan]

Again lots and lots to come back to. Just some ideas first.

Thanks to global warming the Russians aren't exporting any wheat this year. One of the countries they used to export to is Egypt. If Egypt has even less food than usual what do you think is going to happen to their marginal land including wetlands. What do you think will happen worldwide to marginal land if the price of wheat goes up.

It will be drained and planted and vast tracts of wetlands will be lost.
If the price of wheat goes up, the price of beef goes up more and that will lead to more rainforest and pampas gone.

Very small gain in England thanks to global warming, very big loss worldwide. Conservationists with very small worldview go hurray "we have spoonbills" in reality and globally big BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

As a concrete example of conservations getting very self congratulatory about problems. In this case a different but related process.

I used to post on Birdforum and complain about conservationists getting very excited because British rivers were cleaner. This like the arrival of spoonbills was a symptom of a bigger problem in this instance the movement of production from West to East.

This movement of production from West to East is at least partly responsible for

http://www.bing.com/search?q=yangtze++river+polluted&src=IE-SearchBox&FORM=IE8SRC

http://www.bing.com/search?q=yangtze++river+dolphin+extinct&src=IE-SearchBox&FORM=IE8SRC

Don't take notice of irrelevant local gains if they are actually evidence of global devastation.

In answer to Hotspur. We are seeing more birds of prey coming across and those with a more southerly distribution breeding further north. 2,000 Eleanoras falcons are reported every autumn, Booted Eagles, Short Toed eagle, more Black kites, continental Red Kites, Honey Buzzards, Hobbies.

Maybe in a few years time we'll have breeding Black Kites and again conservationists will go hurray.
By that time global warming will be even further advanced and the worldwide changes will be even more pronounced.

 

[Hotspur]

In response to John - hilarious re the raptors a passage of Red Kites & a couple of years of drifted honey buzzards from Scandinavia are the only things i can gleam from that smorgasbord of rubbish which may be true. What makes you think that the movement of wetland birds is anything other than wetland creation? You say look at the global picture but then quote something that is nothing to do with species from the near continent colonising southern England. I am not a global warming denier. I understand that crops failing in Russia can have a knock on effect but how does that affect a species that formerly bred in the UK reclaiming its range due to wetland recreation after reclaiming its range in Holland creating a satellite population in East Anglia? A few tenuous big claims does not make global warming/climate change real. A more realistic arguement would be that the loss of wetland in Spain due to desertification (which is real) and changing land use would force birds north (as south isnt an option) but this simply has not been proved. What can be proved is that in North Somerset vast tracts of wetland have been restored. Any coincidence that this along with proximity to Spain compared to East Anglia led to breeding Little Bittern and Cattle Egret prior to this? Show me evidence of what you are saying. I can give figures re wetland creation/restoration.

Also re climate, this year has been 'normal' re temperatures in winter, harking back 60 or 70 years plus a drier June before a mild summer, no June monsoon as with the summers of recent years which adversely affect breeding success.

The arrival and subsequent breeding of Cattle Egrets is probably a symptom of modern life and their crow like existance in and around man feeding on refuse, carrion and exploiting the habitats we create than climate change - in Spain whilst most species suffered Cattle Egret have increased due to their adaptability.

With regard Little Bittern, these are likely to be irregular breeders in the UK and the creation of habitat closer to where the bulk of the population exists (Iberia) makes this more likely. Officially the only previous breeding was in south yorkshire 26 years ago but most authors acknowledge that they likely bred occasionally in the 30s and 40s& also in the 19th century.

The larger arrivals of Glossy Ibis may be climate related but more likely that they arent being shot as widely and were thus able to spread around the mediterranean basin from the balkans to spain where in the Coto Donana they have exploded in number.

The burden of proof is on those trying to prove climate change as with anything on science otherwise the null hypothesis must be accepted.

 

[Isurus]

I used to post on Birdforum and complain about conservationists getting very excited because British rivers were cleaner. This like the arrival of spoonbills was a symptom of a bigger problem in this instance the movement of production from West to East.

Or it could have been due to the fact that we stopped pouring hundreds of tons of raw sewage, dead animals, untreated chemical waste into them and so forth.

I don't think anyone would be disagreeing with your analysis if the bird in question were say maribou stork or something else warm weather dependent and you had a bit more evidence but the fact is Spoonbills have historically bred here and it is therefore more likely they are back (as has been predicted for more than 20 years) because of both our improved habitat for them and there being habitat nearby (holland) which has led to a big population for them to disperse from.

Its not that people here disagree with your assessment climate change is likely to raise massive environmental issues its just that this has nothing to do with that.

 

[Bubbs]

Actually I believe nasty, wet summers are exactly what was predicted with climate change in Britain, not balmy Mediterranean ones, sadly!

And the winters?

I have never heard the word 'nasty, wet summers', in all the global warming hype over the years.

John.