Cormorant Cull Petition (7 Viewers)

[Jos Stratford]

further to what richard states, there was a plan to return a possible predator of cormorants to southern england, in the form of the white tailed eagle.

White-tailed Eagle is not a predator of Cormorants to any significant degree.

I frequently see upward of five White-tailed Eagles a day (and in prime areas, occasionally flocks of 40 White-tailed Eagles) and have never personally encountered a single case of attempted Cormorant predation, even in areas where Cormorants are abundant.

As already mentioned of this thread, the population of Cormorants is rising rapdily in the Baltics, just as is the White-tailed Eagle population.

 

[Robin Edwards]

Where I live in Bedfordshire, Cormorant numbers as a highest site count have been falling - 149 in 2002 to 63 in 2009. 2010 did however provide an unprecedented count at one site in August of 200 birds although it is unlikely that this will have been due to the season's breeding success or a sudden massive population increase.

Over the border in Cambridgeshire, the Little Paxton reserve has seen a reduction in breeding pairs but not from culling. Wintering numbers have been falling since their peak in 1997.

From their web site:-
"It may well be that cormorants benefited unduly from artificially high numbers of fish in stocked lakes and reservoirs during the 1990s, but that changes in stocking practices have now reduced the availability of ‘easy food’. On the other hand, cormorants may be a barometer of the environmental quality of local waterbodies, so a decline might be an indicator of more serious problems."

 

[Adam W]

How many of you birders out there would start a club and lease a pond for wildlife instead of just complaining?

Very good point, i think someone has already mentioned that birders have a tendancy to be very good at criticising others whilst not doing much constructive themselves.

 

[Adam W]

what would you term a natural predator of a cormorant

Humans

 

[Twite]

they then go to artificially stocked reservoirs which have so many fish in them the only way the fish can survive is to eat the anglers bait, if they did not eat it they would starve.

This is not true. I cite Rutland and Grafham waters as examples. No live, dead or groundbaiting allowed. These waters and thousands more like them are teeming with mollouscs and invertebrate life. Larvae of chironomids, caddis, dragon and damsels, ephemeridae, tadpoles, wind-blown terrestrial insects and the fry of any fish that breed in them. As a matter of fact the trout that overwinter in reservoirs like these are greatly prized by anglers for their condition and fitness.

I could go on and dispute your remarks about fry being washed out to sea by floods, but what's the point.

Twite.

 

[captaincarot]

This is not true. I cite Rutland and Grafham waters as examples. No live, dead or groundbaiting allowed. These waters and thousands more like them are teeming with mollouscs and invertebrate life. Larvae of chironomids, caddis, dragon and damsels, ephemeridae, tadpoles, wind-blown terrestrial insects and the fry of any fish that breed in them. As a matter of fact the trout that overwinter in reservoirs like these are greatly prized by anglers for their condition and fitness.

I could go on and dispute your remarks about fry being washed out to sea by floods, but what's the point.

Twite.

wouldn't wipe my arse with a rainbow trout never mind fish for one. interesting that you cite non native crapfish as a reason to persecute a native predator. well done showed your colours finally

 

[Twite]

wouldn't wipe my arse with a rainbow trout never mind fish for one. interesting that you cite non native crapfish as a reason to persecute a native predator. well done showed your colours finally

They hold brown trout and perch too...but then you knew this, but chose to sidetrack the discussion again.

Your thing is to cloud the issue at all times. All of your uninformed opinion doesn't add weight to your argument.

Re. My colours. I was hardly a shrinking violet when it came to my opinions on controlling cormorant numbers, was I?

Stick to the facts or I'll just have to spend more time pointing out where you've gone wrong, just about everytime you touch the keyboard.

Twite.

 

[captaincarot]

far from being a forward thinking conservation minded passtime anglings main contribution to britain is to pollute our waters with invasive alien species. which are causing untold damage to our native species.

such as, rainbow trout in any water in britain, wells catfish, now probably extant in the trent catchment, barbel in any west facing river, zander introdcued into rivers in both the east and west of england, the fens and now also probably in the trent,

near destruction of crucian carp as a british species due to hybridisation with non native introduced species.
release of the top mouth gudgeon into our water systems.
recklessly moving species from one water to another with no checks as to the health of the fish or what parasites they hold, while moving live baits from one water to another.

introduction of carp into the cheshire meres and associated environments. introduction of carp into the thames and trent catchments. that's just off the top of my head, no doubt if i were to give it any thought at all i could come up with many others.

it is also standard practice for game keepers on salmon and trout rivers to have culls of our native non game fish, so if you happen to be walking along the banks of any of our game rivers and find the carcases of fish which aren't trout or salmon thrown up the banks, you have found the results of one of thee culls. it is also standard (but declining) practice among many of the midlands anglers that they throw pike up the banks should then happen to catch one

so angling conservation minded my arse, and twite carry on looking at fingers,

 

[Steve]

Gents, discussion debate etc... but try not to get personal.

ta

 

[Twite]

and twite carry on looking at fingers,

Proof of your debating skills if it were ever needed.

Twite.

 

[Robin Edwards]

Very good point, i think someone has already mentioned that birders have a tendancy to be very good at criticising others whilst not doing much constructive themselves.

All or just some Adam

 

[BrightIdea]

what would you term a natural predator of a cormorant

I suppose that was part of my question.

It seems others are indicating that they are apex. I dont know if thats the case in the NE USA.

 

[birdboybowley]

Maybe if we hadn't over-fished the sea, they'd've stayed put

 

[Adam W]

All or just some Adam

Certainly not all by any means there are plenty of birders that do some fantastic work ( and no i'm not claiming to be one of them) but to quote Richard ' other countryside users' do as a whole seem to be more likely to get out there and do something rather than sit there complaining about everbody else than birders do though of course there will be plenty of exceptions on either side.

 

[alan_rymer]

Maybe if we hadn't over-fished the sea, they'd've stayed put

[Sinensis] As a species name, means “native to China.” ( I'm stretching things, the qote came from a plant forum ).

However the subspecies came from the far eastern river systems , working their way across Europe's inland waterways. Why? I hear you ask? "because we overfished the seas".
Just like lots of species. They arrive here, found it was good, and multiplied.

 

[Robin Edwards]

Certainly not all by any means there are plenty of birders that do some fantastic work ( and no i'm not claiming to be one of them) but to quote Richard ' other countryside users' do as a whole seem to be more likely to get out there and do something rather than sit there complaining about everbody else than birders do though of course there will be plenty of exceptions on either side.

Adam - correct.

I know plenty of birders that commit significant amounts of their time to birding whether through data collection, fund raising or through helping to conserve the birds that we want to see. Similarly I know those that are birders for the personal gratification it brings them, spending no more that the fuel costs to see their next bird.

WT, WWT and RSPB obviously do have charges to visit reserves but bird watching is generally seen as a free-to-all pleasure away from the purpose-made reserves and individually carry less influence that say an angling or wildfowling group because of the money those groups can generate.

 

[BrightIdea]

Re wanting some birders to do more... one could perhaps petition to set up a licensing policy, such that if you want to go birding (or own binoculars, or birding books... etc) you need a permit. Sales of permits could then be used to fund habitat/resource maintenance specific to birding. This is a model that is used for other nature -recreational activities such as sport angling, off-roading, and hunting.

 

[Bird_Bill]

Re wanting some birders to do more... one could perhaps petition to set up a licensing policy, such that if you want to go birding (or own binoculars, or birding books... etc) you need a permit. Sales of permits could then be used to fund habitat/resource maintenance specific to birding. This is a model that is used for other nature -recreational activities such as sport angling, off-roading, and hunting.

Recall being told to take lip-reading classes regarding taxes. On the other hand,here in missouri we have "design for conservation" funding. Revenue is derived exactly in that manner from sale of license's, fuel, assortment of related outdoor goods. Believe it or not,that program has led to problems were fowlers who do bulk of financial lifting feel they have exclusive domain over public access to publicly owned ground during season. Would certainly solve that argument. Just a minority of fowlers Ive heard it from, but have in fact heard. Fact that other monies from general revenue are often used in same areas is always overlooked,ignored.

 

[Simon Wates]

Re wanting some birders to do more... one could perhaps petition to set up a licensing policy, such that if you want to go birding (or own binoculars, or birding books... etc) you need a permit. Sales of permits could then be used to fund habitat/resource maintenance specific to birding. This is a model that is used for other nature -recreational activities such as sport angling, off-roading, and hunting.

God...struth...no! Freedom please! We´ll be needing a license for walking boots next - to go walking and when we are short of a penny we'll just have to look at the birds without bins....till we get a license.

 

[Irish Kite]

yes they are culled under licence, yes it is basically aimed at allowing someone to go out and shoot cormorants till there are no more cormorants, because they are foriegners which don't belong here.

this would then befollowed by removing all the ottres because they were introduced by people and shouldn't have been put there,

with a side order of getting rid of ospreys, goosander and merganser too.

it has **** all to do with conservation in any way shape or form other than conservation in the manner applied on grouse moors i.e. kill every thing that might possibly eat one of the species that you are farming.

That approach would obviously be unsustaineable given that Cormorants breed in colonies and could be mowed down with ease by hunters - I would certainly not support a weakening of the current protections to that extent.
Does anyone know what the the terms and conditions that come with a licence under the present culling system??, in terms of number of birds that can be killed and who carries it out??