Buying a Demo - just what sort of abuse /torture have they suffered? (1 Viewer)

caruh said:

A dilemma or not...........last week I ordered a Zeiss 10X32 FL demo from an online retailer as I have done twice before. I was rather surprised that the rainguard and objective lens covers were missing but stunned to find an 1/8 inch scratch on the right ocular. I called customer support and was told to return them via a prepaid shipping label. All good but now the dilemma........there are no more demos and at $1300 I am tempted to keep them rather than paying $1700 for new ones. Did I mention I fell in love at first sight/view with them? I've had the 8X32 FL for a few years and the 10X32 fits me perfectly like the 8X32. Objective opinions are appreciated and probably necessary.

Click to expand...

Caruh, will get to your dilema in a minute - but first I'm interested in whether or not you expected that damage of this sort was possible by the category of the demo, or the description of likely wear and tear, or imperfections. Was this something expected, albeit not hoped for? - or was is something totally out of the blue and unacceptable? Was there any mention of it being a refurb in any way?

As for the dilema - if you're that thrilled with it (apart from the obvious!), and unable to replicate the deal, then it becomes a ~$400 equation .....

Can you get it repaired for a reasonable amount, or would it even be covered by warranty conditions? Are you happy that all else is, (and will be into the future), well with the bin?


Chosun :gh:

Chosun...........the demos at this online retailer are not rated. They get them directly from Zeiss. My previous purchases of 8X32 FL and 8X20 Victory were perfect, even a Zeiss rebate on 8X32 FL. You are correct..........it is a $400 issue. Thanks for your input.

I recently ordered a pair of demo Swarovski 8X32 SVs from Camera Land. I could tell they were used, but they came with everything and were in very good condition.

I imagine that when dealers go to shows they take the binoculars off the table when they start to show some wear. If I was going from table to table looking at binoculars and all the binos at dealer Y's table were dirty or had torn objective covers I would probably pass them by.

Our Audobon society has a bird festival and they have a room were Nikon, Leica, Swarovski and a few others had tables. It was a laid back affair and people were taking binos from one table to another table to compare the Leicas and Swarovskis. So again, if the demos were too used they wouldn't compare favorably against another brand. "Gee, these Nikons look brand new and the Swarovskis are all dirty, I guess I'll by the Nikons."

So when you buy demos you are probably getting binoculars that were used for a week or two at bird fairs. At least that's what I imagine.

Chad

ChadHahn said:

So when you buy demos you are probably getting binoculars that were used for a week or two at bird fairs. At least that's what I imagine.

Chad

Click to expand...

Seems very plausible and suggests that demo units are probably pretty good value. I'd think that they don't get dunked or abused much while in the demo area. Maybe somebody from the trade could enlighten us further.

If there was a discount I wouldn't hesitate to buy a high end pair from a store that carried them; in fact I imagine this happens more than we know., ie, without us knowing it. No reputable store is going to tolerate abuse of their demos to impress or reassure a shopper. I would not however buy a cheapo product under the same circs- they start life with a limited period of service built in.

Dilemma resolved. Decided to return the 10X32 FL demo. Ben at EO was able to obtain another demo from Zeiss and it arrived today via overnight delivery. The new demo is perfect and EO customer service was excellent. Thanks Ben........hope you see this post.

Caruh - that's great news! :t:

Did you come out of it with the same financial savings equation intact?

The big question now is: :brains: What happens to your first demo unit (with the "1/8 inch scratch on the right ocular") ??

Is it just going back into the demo pool? (labelled with fault? or unlabelled?) - at what price? Or is it even going back to Zeiss for a repair?
Were you given any info?



Chosun :gh:

Chosun........yes same price $1300. I assume the returned demo will go back to Zeiss since EO was able to order a replacement demo for me and no 10X32 FL demos are listed on their website. My 8X32 FL and 8X20 Victory, both demos from Eagle Optics were perfect and I think the 10X32 was an anomaly. The new demo is like new. Ben was terrific.

caruh said:

Chosun........yes same price $1300. I assume the returned demo will go back to Zeiss since EO was able to order a replacement demo for me and no 10X32 FL demos are listed on their website. My 8X32 FL and 8X20 Victory, both demos from Eagle Optics were perfect and I think the 10X32 was an anomaly. The new demo is like new. Ben was terrific.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the compliment! Yes, the pair you returned went back to Zeiss. When we sell demos, the expectation is that any wear on them will be purely cosmetic and that the functionality and optical system and mechanics of the piece will be perfect.
Cheers,
Ben

Ben Lizdas
Sales Manager
Eagle Optics
www.eagleoptics.com

Thanks for the heads-up Ben :t:



Chosun :gh:

what is the difference between a demo from a dealer
and a used from an individual or E-Bay?

I would trust a known dealer more than an unknown individual

edj

edwincjones said:

what is the difference between a demo from a dealer
and a used from an individual or E-Bay?

I would trust a known dealer more than an unknown individual

edj

Click to expand...

Hello Edwin,

I surely agree with you, but I have the luxury of being near a major retailer of demos. I can examine the item before purchasing.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood :hi:

I was at the Tucson Audubon Society Bird Festival and was talking to a friend about the Swarovski Demos that were recently on sale at Camera Land. I asked the Swarovski rep what happened to their demos. He said they keep them for about a year and that the don't get much use.

Chad

I bought my current SLC 8x42 HD from Cameraland NY in Dec. 2011 for $1599. Fantastic deal. It was a "salesman's sample," but arrived in a factory fresh box and worked flawlessly. If it hadn't been perfect I'm sure SONA would have made it so.

Ed

Ed, Chad, that's good to hear x3!

* Another report of a thumbs up for CameraLand demo's :t:
* Thanks for the info on the Swaro's likely demo history
* Nice pick-up Ed, on the SLC-HD |:d|



Chosun :gh:

edwincjones said:

what is the difference between a demo from a dealer
and a used from an individual or E-Bay?

I would trust a known dealer more than an unknown individual

edj

Click to expand...

Edwin, Thanks - this (and other such thoughts) were what was floating around in the back of my mind when I started this thread (which I'll elaborate more on below) .....



Chosun :gh:

Thanks to all of those who've relayed their experiences - I'm now quite reassured that buying demo's is a great way to save a few bob. :eat:

As Arthur said, if you're lucky enough to be near a store, then you can go and 'hands-on' the individual unit to satisfy yourself of its suitability, and as John said, check rudimentary things like collimation, sweet spot sizes, and assess barrel matching etc. Even for those who are scattered all over the globe without this luxury, can, I think, quite assuredly purchase these demo's 'sight unseen'. Particularly when from the reputable dealers that have emerged on this thread (from folks experiences - often repeat customers over many years), such as CameraLandNY, and EagleOptics, and the larger reputable retailers such as Adorama, B&H, OpticsPlanet, and I'm sure a few more that you know locally ....... of course not forgetting hidden gems like the Honey Creek store! A few emails back and forth should reassure both parties, and help seal the deal.

If there are any horror stories out there - they are isolated, 'secret' |:x| , and certainly not standard practice from what has been reported ...... perhaps being saved only for 'endurance tests' .......

So Demo's largely sorted :t: but this brings me to those nagging back of the mind thoughts - what happens to those QC quasi-lemons, and other 'not quite right' returns that either go into the general warehouse stock, clearance stock, are slow moving and may end up as discounted specials, or in the bargain cave, or on the bay after a short while? :cat:

If an otherwise good bin just doesn't 'fit' the individual that's one thing - but I'm thinking of those 'meh' bins, the ones without a definite 'Wow', or without a 'Oh yeah - this one's a cherry alright'. The trail of former flames that many here have left behind (some moreso than others!) - those bins that don't justify overlooking minor foibles, or 'niggles'. The ones that are on the bottom of the QC tolerance heap, the 'Monday' bins. The stuff that 'any' new owner would find 'not up to scratch'. The sorts of items that may be turning up on the discount thread, or rapidly turned over on the bay. Are they forever destined to go on the trading merry-go-round? until so poor schmuck (completely naive, or conversely, well informed) either hangs on to it because they don't know better, or shove it in a drawer because they do, but couldn't be bothered with the hassle?

Perhaps there are far bigger minefields out there than demo's? :h?:



Chosun :gh:

Hello,
recently bought demo Leica Trinovid BN 8x42,
and find that they dont focus to infinity like other
binoculars can. Diopter adjustment which is for me
on other binoculars at +1 position, needs to be set on
leica to +4d (more than scale maximum). At this
setting when I focusing to most right position I get very good depth
of field,but not infinity like in other binos in most right position.

Have anyone same problem with Trinovids?
I asked supplier, which says that is normal.

Best regards Kestrel

kestrel1 said:

Hello,
recently bought demo Leica Trinovid BN 8x42,
and find that they dont focus to infinity like other
binoculars can. Diopter adjustment which is for me
on other binoculars at +1 position, needs to be set on
leica to +4d (more than scale maximum). At this
setting when I focusing to most right position I get very good depth
of field,but not infinity like in other binos in most right position.

Have anyone same problem with Trinovids?
I asked supplier, which says that is normal.

Best regards Kestrel

Click to expand...

I doesn't seem normal to me. You should be able to focus to infinity with it. There doesn't seem to be enough focusing room past infinity on it to reach infinity with the diopter set at +4.

I think that the binocular has a problem with the diopter adjustment mechanism. This can happen when it is integrated with the focusing mechanism.

I think you should send it back.

Bob

Hello,

Thanks for advice,
Supplier and seller said that warranty do not cover repair and so on....,
Leica said that it is possible to repair, but can´t say the ammount before
their technician inspect it, and I think that repair and shipping will cost nearly the purchase price (which was 350€), so I decide to repair it by myself :t:.

Yes, brave decision, so it was my first repair of bino :-O
Only tools I used was screwdrivers and pliers.

After opening the cover in middle of focus wheel, I use small wathrepairing screwdriver for dissasembling small pin which was screwed to the brass rings
which was screwed to the central rotor shaft (also brass). After dissasemble of the brass ring from central shaft I get down the outer focus wheel (used as diopter correcting for right eye), and I saw the scale and inner focus wheel mechanism, it was mehanicaly connected to outer wheel by three force screws, after loosen of these three screws I was able to move rotor ring and adjust the left tube to "infinity" by using screwdriver, while the inner focus wheel stay in its position. I spent two hours with adjusting the focus of tube and revealing how the mechanism works. When I adjusted the left tube to make it able to focus to "infinity" ("" is because I adjusted it only experimentall) I tighten three screws to mechanically connect rotor ring to inner focus wheel. After that I adjust the right tube by pulling the central rotor shaft and turn it by screwdriver. On the picture i attached you can see two plastic half gears which is used for turning central shaft by outer focus wheel. Then I assembled it back near the first step with short pin, and was able to find out which position on scale is setted up to +1d which is my personal correction, and I measured the angle between +1d and finest diopter adjustment setting. So I dissasemble it and turn the outer ring in respect to measured angle, to get the finest diopter adjustment setting at +1d. After that I assemble it and find that the pin which connect the brass rings to central shaft and outer focus wheel did not get after tightening into correct position where the two holes of brass ring and hole in outer focus wheel alling in axis. So I started my micro drilling machine (which I use for printed circuit boards drilling) and make new hole in downer brass ring and outer focus wheel. (Maybe I should measure the angle between brass rings and outer focus wheel and adjust it, but I don´t have taste to spend hour more, because was sunday and want to go birding out.)
Then I put the pin inside new hole and tighten it and gave back cover.

After spend 4 hours, I repair it to better condition that the seller send me.
Now it can focus far, and waiting on clear sky (it is rainy now in Slovakia) for star test which was the main problem of previous condition of focusser and diopter adjustment. I think that the new condition will focus behind stars like other binoculars can.

Warning: Do not repair your binoculars at your own without additional assembling skills (I have 10year skills from electronic manufacture and 10 year from childhood assembling LEGO including Lego Technic:hi I decide to repair only because it was my last chance- supplier and seller was reluctant, and I know that if I damage the bino I will send it to Leica, because the repair cost will be same, shortly I hadn´t anything to loose with my repair. First repair, decent bino, and success, what else you could wish

In the end I must thank also to designers of Trinovid, that they make easy to repair design, which thinks also on second hand and non waranty owners, like me which could not spend big money on repair. In that aspect it recalls me old european Fords Granada, Taunus or Cortina which my deceased father repair on court with using common toolso.

Best regards Kestrel