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Some Malaysian birds to ID

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Old Wednesday 28th March 2018, 18:23   #26
jalid
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About the Peregrine photo. This species is variable both geographically and individually and the number of recognised subspecies varies a lot between different authors which have done independent studies. Ssp peregrinator is variable geographically and could be splitted to several subspecies, but there is also the extensive individual variation and where to draw the line? Also ernesti is variable and in some areas, for example in peninsular Malaysia, may show rufous on breast. This really may be because of peregrinator genes, but, for example, White et al (Peregrine Falcons of the World) discuss this and include all peninsular Malaysian birds in ernesti. According to them, ernesti meets peregrinator somewhere in the northern Peninsula and southern Myanmar. Wells (The Birds of the Thai-Malay Peninsula) also includes peninsular breeders in ernesti, although with some hesitation ('residents have not been identified formally but in the field appear close to subspecies ernesti').

So probably new names are not needed here.
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Old Thursday 29th March 2018, 03:56   #27
andrewins
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jalid View Post
About the Peregrine photo. This species is variable both geographically and individually and the number of recognised subspecies varies a lot between different authors which have done independent studies. Ssp peregrinator is variable geographically and could be splitted to several subspecies, but there is also the extensive individual variation and where to draw the line? Also ernesti is variable and in some areas, for example in peninsular Malaysia, may show rufous on breast. This really may be because of peregrinator genes, but, for example, White et al (Peregrine Falcons of the World) discuss this and include all peninsular Malaysian birds in ernesti. According to them, ernesti meets peregrinator somewhere in the northern Peninsula and southern Myanmar. Wells (The Birds of the Thai-Malay Peninsula) also includes peninsular breeders in ernesti, although with some hesitation ('residents have not been identified formally but in the field appear close to subspecies ernesti').

So probably new names are not needed here.
Thank you for such a good explanation!
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Old Thursday 29th March 2018, 16:24   #28
andrewins
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12. More tricky swifts
2018_02_24 Bukik Tinggi (about 50 km to NE from Kuala Lumpur)
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Last edited by andrewins : Thursday 29th March 2018 at 16:26.
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Old Thursday 29th March 2018, 16:26   #29
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The same swifts
2018_02_24 Bukik Tinggi (about 50 km to NE from Kuala Lumpur)
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Last edited by andrewins : Thursday 29th March 2018 at 16:42.
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Old Thursday 29th March 2018, 16:42   #30
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13. Brown-streaked Flycatcher Muscicapa williamsoni ?
2018_02_24 Bukik Tinggi (about 50 km to NE from Kuala Lumpur)
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Last edited by andrewins : Thursday 29th March 2018 at 17:03.
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Old Thursday 29th March 2018, 17:02   #31
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14. Buff-breasted Babbler Pellorneum tickelli ?
2018_02_24 Bukik Tinggi (about 50 km to NE from Kuala Lumpur)
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Old Thursday 29th March 2018, 18:16   #32
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The Swiftlets look like Glossy/Plume-toed, if 1763 is anything to go by.

I'm not sure about the Flycatcher - it's only diffusely streaked and doesn't seem to have enough yellow at the base of the lower mandible, except in 1604. Maybe just Asian Brown?

The final bird is indeed Buff-breasted Babbler, which I saw in what must be the same place.
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Old Thursday 29th March 2018, 21:44   #33
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Are you sure the flycatchers are all the same bird? The first two photos look like Asian Brown but the second two look like Dark-sided (e.g. smaller bill with less pale base, less pale on lores, rounder head, shorter tail projection, dark centres to undertail coverts).
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Old Friday 30th March 2018, 00:07   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnallcock View Post
Are you sure the flycatchers are all the same bird? The first two photos look like Asian Brown but the second two look like Dark-sided (e.g. smaller bill with less pale base, less pale on lores, rounder head, shorter tail projection, dark centres to undertail coverts).
If there are two birds involved, that would explain a lot.
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Old Friday 30th March 2018, 05:11   #35
Grahame Walbridge
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Yes, clearly two birds involved as John alludes, the first (1-2) has a damaged tail for starters in addition to the features noted.

Agree 1-2 Asian Brown 3-4 Dark-sided.

Brown-streaked for comparison https://singaporebirds.com/species/b...ed-flycatcher/ Note in particular warmer brown plumage tones, more distinct/extensive underpart streaking, more extensive yellow bill base and shorter pp.

Grahame

Last edited by Grahame Walbridge : Friday 30th March 2018 at 05:14.
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Old Friday 30th March 2018, 06:15   #36
andrewins
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnallcock View Post
Are you sure the flycatchers are all the same bird? The first two photos look like Asian Brown but the second two look like Dark-sided (e.g. smaller bill with less pale base, less pale on lores, rounder head, shorter tail projection, dark centres to undertail coverts).
It is the same bird. The first 2 shots of it were made in good conditions. The last 2 were shot in fog. I have more pics of it. I will add them on saturday.
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Old Friday 30th March 2018, 06:17   #37
andrewins
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Originally Posted by andyb39 View Post
If there are two birds involved, that would explain a lot.
There was the only bird. I shot it in different weather conditions. At first the weather was good than suddelly the fog came. Last 2 pics were made in the fog.
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Old Friday 30th March 2018, 06:20   #38
andrewins
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Originally Posted by Grahame Walbridge View Post
Yes, clearly two birds involved as John alludes, the first (1-2) has a damaged tail for starters in addition to the features noted.

Agree 1-2 Asian Brown 3-4 Dark-sided.

Brown-streaked for comparison https://singaporebirds.com/species/b...ed-flycatcher/ Note in particular warmer brown plumage tones, more distinct/extensive underpart streaking, more extensive yellow bill base and shorter pp.

Grahame
There was the only bird. I shot it in different weather conditions. At first the weather was good than suddelly the fog came. Last 2 pics were made in the fog. I'll add more pics tomorrow when I will be able to get to my computer.
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Old Friday 30th March 2018, 06:30   #39
andrewins
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Originally Posted by andyb39 View Post
The Swiftlets look like Glossy/Plume-toed, if 1763 is anything to go by.

I'm not sure about the Flycatcher - it's only diffusely streaked and doesn't seem to have enough yellow at the base of the lower mandible, except in 1604. Maybe just Asian Brown?

The final bird is indeed Buff-breasted Babbler, which I saw in what must be the same place.

Thank you for swifts ID suggestion and confirmation of babbler!

Last edited by andrewins : Friday 30th March 2018 at 06:33.
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Old Sunday 1st April 2018, 13:05   #40
andrewins
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Hi guys!

Here are few more pics of this flycatcher from Bukik Tinggi (about 50 km to NE from Kuala Lumpur)
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Old Sunday 1st April 2018, 13:09   #41
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and few more pics of this specimen from the same place
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Old Sunday 1st April 2018, 13:28   #42
andrewins
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The last pics of this specimen. What ID is most appropriate for this specimen?
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Old Sunday 1st April 2018, 13:40   #43
Grahame Walbridge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewins View Post
There was the only bird. I shot it in different weather conditions. At first the weather was good than suddelly the fog came. Last 2 pics were made in the fog. I'll add more pics tomorrow when I will be able to get to my computer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewins View Post
and few more pics of this specimen from the same place
Despite your earlier assurances to the contrary, there are clearly two different species here.

1 & 6-14 Dark-sided Flycatcher
2-5 Asian Brown Flycatcher

The Dark-sided has a smaller, shorter bill with a more restricted base, a smaller, more domed head and a longer pp. In addition you can see the more solidly dark breast sides with more defined streaks towards the centre of the breast and dark centres to the utc's. Further, the pale lores are indistinct; note on the Brown they are solid and extend to the forehead.

Grahame

Last edited by Grahame Walbridge : Sunday 1st April 2018 at 13:48.
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Old Monday 2nd April 2018, 16:25   #44
andrewins
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grahame Walbridge View Post
Despite your earlier assurances to the contrary, there are clearly two different species here.

1 & 6-14 Dark-sided Flycatcher
2-5 Asian Brown Flycatcher

The Dark-sided has a smaller, shorter bill with a more restricted base, a smaller, more domed head and a longer pp. In addition you can see the more solidly dark breast sides with more defined streaks towards the centre of the breast and dark centres to the utc's. Further, the pale lores are indistinct; note on the Brown they are solid and extend to the forehead.

Grahame
Hello Grahame,

than probably I didn't noticed that there were two of them when I was changing the card. Can they be seen together at the same place?

Last edited by andrewins : Monday 2nd April 2018 at 17:31.
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Old Monday 2nd April 2018, 19:01   #45
andrewins
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grahame Walbridge View Post
Despite your earlier assurances to the contrary, there are clearly two different species here.

1 & 6-14 Dark-sided Flycatcher
2-5 Asian Brown Flycatcher

The Dark-sided has a smaller, shorter bill with a more restricted base, a smaller, more domed head and a longer pp. In addition you can see the more solidly dark breast sides with more defined streaks towards the centre of the breast and dark centres to the utc's. Further, the pale lores are indistinct; note on the Brown they are solid and extend to the forehead.

Grahame
Hello once again, jusk looked through tonns of pics of both species. You are right! There are two different species on the pics. Thank you very much! It is amasing but I still don't understand how they managed to change each other in this place during those few seconds when I was changing the memory card :)
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