Willow or Marsh Tit? Beijing, China (1 Viewer)

Lerxst

Well-known member

• Nov 20, 2018

• #1

Poor picture from this weekend. Being from the States, I have no experience in Willow vs. Marsh. Based on my reading, I am calling this Willow, but would love some confirmation. Cannot see here but the wing panel had light edging. Head looked more dark brown than black. Bib seems shaggy to me. What I'm trying to decide is if the white in the bill is present. Sadly I don't think the pic is good enough to say. Anyway, thanks for looking....

https://legallyblindbirding.files.wordpress.com/2018/11/dscn5440.jpg?w=2560

 

G

Grahame Walbridge

Well-known member

• Nov 20, 2018

• #2

Michael, despite the quality of the image, I am seeing the diagnostic basal white spot to the bill and would conclude (brevirostris) Marsh https://www.shanghaibirding.com/tag/marsh-tit/ the resedent form of 'Willow' is stoetzneri included in the Songar group by some, classified as ssp of Willow by IOC. This form is apparently darker with a browner cap, lacks a wing panel and has an extensive bib which extends to sides, enclosing white cheeks.

Grahame

 

Last edited: Nov 20, 2018

E

Earnest lad

Well-known member

• Nov 20, 2018

• #3

Also the bib is rather neat and compact as opposed to being relatively "diffused" . I understand the bib tends to differ somewhat in this way between the Marsh and Willow species.

 

Lerxst

Well-known member

• Nov 20, 2018

• #4

Thanks for the info! Here is one more crap photo that I think might show the white base on the bill.

https://legallyblindbirding.files.wordpress.com/2018/11/closeuptit.jpg

 

Lerxst

Well-known member

• Nov 21, 2018

• #5

More poor images:

https://legallyblindbirding.files.wordpress.com/2018/11/mysterytit.jpg?w=2560

 

G

Grahame Walbridge

Well-known member

• Nov 21, 2018

• #6

Thats better Michael, the brown cap, warm underparts, short T6 and lack of bill spot (presumably artefact in OP) look better for stoetzneri Willow. It has also been variously treated as a ssp. of Songar Tit and, I notice by 'Birding Beijing' as Sichuan Tit P.wegoldicus which, according to IOC, is monotypic and restricted to WC/SWC China.

Grahame

 

Last edited: Nov 21, 2018

KenM

Well-known member

• Nov 21, 2018

• #7

I note that in particular, the montage of new images show a bird that has “Dusky” underparts which in the UK (kleinschmidti) would be perhaps a better fit for Willow Tit, as Marsh Tits are normally much cleaner looking.

Cheers

 

T

Terry Townshend

Regular vagrant

• Nov 22, 2018

• #8

The photos posted by Lerxst show a stoetzneri WILLOW TIT, the form resident in the mountains around Beijing. It's scarce in lowland parts of the capital where it is generally replaced by Marsh Tit. The two are relatively easy to separate here given the more brownish cap, larger bib and some colour on the flanks of Willow.. Marsh is much cleaner and with a blacker cap and smaller bib. Thanks to Lerxst for alerting me to this post and for the photos.