-
Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.
Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
Plover ID ? Singapore (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Meerkat
- Start date
Nutcracker
Stop Brexit!
Kentish Plover, with that white collar round the back of the neck?
Thanks
johnallcock
Well-known member
Looks better for Malaysian Plover I think, with the contrast in the upperparts (dark centres and pale fringes to feathers).
Deb Burhinus
Used to be well known! 😎
I’m not familiar with Malaysian but just to say structurally, I’d be looking elsewhere rather than at a Kentish - the bill does look long and blunt tipped and it’s particularly long legged.
Can an immature Swinhoe’s be ruled out? - (of which I’m also not familiar!)
http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?Bird_ID=2840&Bird_Image_ID=51832
Can an immature Swinhoe’s be ruled out? - (of which I’m also not familiar!)
http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?Bird_ID=2840&Bird_Image_ID=51832
JWN Andrewes
Poor Judge of Pasta.
I'm in the Malaysian camp - that rather mottled looking scaliness of the upper parts looks spot on. On the Swinhoe's you link the variegtion is more sort of organised and regimented, rather than scruffy and all over the place.
Deb Burhinus
Used to be well known! 😎
Just to be clear, I’m not in any ‘camp’ here, I just can’t see a Kentish. I agree John’s suggestion is probably correct having looked at online images just mentioned Swinhoe’s to rule out any possible confusion sp. esp. given the robust bill, leg colour and length of tibia (but as stated I have no exp with either and the dark shafts to the centre of the mantle feathers, Ts and Ss with wide buff ragged fringing are clearly pro Malaysian features)
Last edited:
Nutcracker
Stop Brexit!
Me neither, but looking at pics, agree that's a better fit than Kentish :t:
Andy Adcock
Worst person on Birdforum
So,
a bird that prior to it's split, was consistently called 'White-faced' a name familiar to most in the region, is now Swinhoe's, why?
IOC call it WfP and Swinhoe does not appear in the scientific name so why anyone uses Swinhoe is beyond me, especially with the trend against eponyms.
Is this the HBW name Deb?
Re the ID, Malaysian didn't leap in to my head but neither did Kentish.
Last edited:
It was taken @ Lazarus Island (Southern Island of Singapore)
viator
Well-known member
Andy,
Swinhoe originally discovered it and gave the name dealbatus to it. The White-faced name was being used in the '90's for an unknown plover species reports that were starting and researched over the ensuing years - eventually concluding the unknown was the same as Swinhoe's original discovery.
After that the Swinhoe's Plover name started being used quite a bit - although probably not as much as White-faced.
Regards
Mike
Deb Burhinus
Used to be well known! 😎
further reading if anyone is inclined!
http://www.thaibirding.com/ornithology/lostplover.htm
http://www.thaibirding.com/ornithology/lostplover.htm
Andy Adcock
Worst person on Birdforum
Cheers for that Mike,
Robert Swinhoe .......https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Swinhoe
Seems likely that he'll fall under the 'white privilege' heading and lose his eponym at some point as ending eponyms, completely, is the aim of one group in America.
'The Bird Names for Birds movement, which has gathered 2,300 signatures on a petition calling for the changing of all honorific names, is itself part of the larger societal reckoning with long-standing racist symbols and practices.'
Here's a quote from a newspaper article
'As ornithologists and birders Gabriel Foley and Jordan Rutter wrote in a Washington Post op-ed this week: Honorific names, known as eponyms, “cast long, dark shadows over our beloved birds and represent colonialism, racism and inequality. It is long overdue that we acknowledge the problem of such names, and it is long overdue that we should change them.'
Apologies for the tangent but I felt it relevent at this current time.
Last edited:
johnallcock
Well-known member
I think the name Swinhoe's originated partly from the Forktail paper discussing the species (https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...8dbe50/1545666034794/Kennerley-Charadrius.pdf), which discusses 'Swinhoe's dealbatus' to distinguish the birds they are talking about from the prevailing incorrect use of dealbatus at that time (when it was used for all Kentish Plovers in East Asia). It's been in use by some since then, but as far as I know the name White-faced Plover has been adopted by all listing authorities since the split.
The question of eponyms has not created such discussion in Asia (which is this birds range) as it has in America. In fact, I know several people who prefer eponyms over 'descriptive' names and view earlier attempts to rename species like Pallas's Grashopper Warbler as "American colonialism" (although the people I've heard this from are white expats, so not the best group to be commenting on this issue). I have never seen a compelling alternative to eponyms for the names of the many species of Phylloscopus, for example.
But back to the bird, this doesn't look like White-faced (or Swinhoe's) to me. White-faced is much more uniform in the upperpart pattern than this bird, lacking the dark shaft streaks and pale fringes (juvenile White-faced have pale fringes, but the head pattern indicates this is an adult female).
JWN Andrewes
Poor Judge of Pasta.
Understood. :t:
