SPARROWS Ornithologically challenged questioner (1 Viewer)

Womble Alice · Dec 6, 2004

Are sparrows supposed to be on the decline?
(?related to rise in sparrowhawk numbers?)
If so is it tree sparrows or house sparrows?
Or both?
Thanks
Womble Alice
P.S. Apologies for my ignorance but I know more about Aussie birds. Not much more mind, I just lived with quite a few (to clarify feathered variety not human)

Jane Turner · Dec 6, 2004

Its both species.... farming practices implicated in both declines..in rurual settings. I believe there are also problems with nest sites

Womble Alice · Dec 6, 2004

Jane Turner said:
Its both species.... farming practices implicated in both declines..in rurual settings. I believe there are also problems with nest sites

So are their numbers dropping only in rural areas or towns too?
I ask because I've started putting bird seed all over the front garden and this morning I saw three house sparrows in amongst the starlings and blackbird.
Small fry compared to what you experianced birders have seen and can identify but it made me smile. Plus my identifying skills don't yet stretch much further than gull types at the moment.

Alice

florall · Dec 6, 2004

Their numbers are certainly dropping in rural areas, but also in some inner city areas. I don't think they've been seen in central London parks for a long time, and this might be to do with lack of nest sites, as Jane said. Out in the suburbs and smaller towns, I think there are reasonably healthy populations. For many years, I've had a breeding population in my hedge, and this summer on one day, I had 75 of them in the hedge at the same time. Keep feeding them and you might find them regular visitors to your garden. They will also use hanging bird feeders with a sunflower seed mix in - in fact, in my garden, they prefer to use the feeders than feed off the ground.

Nightranger · Dec 6, 2004

The problem with rural and urban populations is that they are exploiting different aspects of the environment and it is not easy to come up with a blanket solution. In urban areas, late broods are failing more often than early broods inferring that late summer food (invertebrates) is affected by something that is peculiar to towns (exhaust pollution that is less easily dispersed by weather in late summer?). In rural areas, some old colonies are deserted so we know it is not loss of nest sites (as is one of the problems for barn owls). The suspicion is that winter forage is insufficient and this makes sense if we consider that winter stubble is ploughed back immediately and grain stores are now enclosed. Modernised housing may be an additional threat in some urban areas or at least may be helping to constrict breeding pair numbers.

Ian

Womble Alice · Dec 6, 2004

florall said:
Their numbers are certainly dropping in rural areas, but also in some inner city areas. I don't think they've been seen in central London parks for a long time, and this might be to do with lack of nest sites, as Jane said. Out in the suburbs and smaller towns, I think there are reasonably healthy populations. For many years, I've had a breeding population in my hedge, and this summer on one day, I had 75 of them in the hedge at the same time. Keep feeding them and you might find them regular visitors to your garden. They will also use hanging bird feeders with a sunflower seed mix in - in fact, in my garden, they prefer to use the feeders than feed off the ground.

Thanks both of you for the answers and advice. Unfortunately bird feeders are not an option yet as Im in a flat and the resident alcoholic in the back flat tends to steal and vandalise any plants and things we put out!!!!!! I have to sneak out in the dark to put the bird food out.
I'm in talks with the freeholder to fence the front off and turn it back into a "proper garden" . Fingers crossed, if this happens I intend to make bird friendliness the single focus of the garden.

Alice

florall · Dec 6, 2004

Probably not an option for you yet Alice, unless you're in an upstairs flat, but you can get bird feeders that attach to windows. I haven't tried them myself but I do have four feeders hanging above my window from hooks, so that I can lie on the sofa and watch the birds coming (how lazy is that?). They don't seem to mind the proximity to the back door, one metre away. As I said not an option for you yet, because of your neighbour, but might be something to think about if the problem is sorted out. Well done to keep gound feeding in these circumstances.

Womble Alice · Dec 6, 2004

florall said:
Probably not an option for you yet Alice, unless you're in an upstairs flat, but you can get bird feeders that attach to windows. I haven't tried them myself but I do have four feeders hanging above my window from hooks, so that I can lie on the sofa and watch the birds coming (how lazy is that?). They don't seem to mind the proximity to the back door, one metre away. As I said not an option for you yet, because of your neighbour, but might be something to think about if the problem is sorted out. Well done to keep gound feeding in these circumstances.

I'm on the middle floor. I have tried sticking an old perspex feeder out the window on a piece of string. But the birds practice complete avoidance of it unfortunately. I must be doing something wrong. There are starlings roosting just above my window to the left. Anyway the won't touch the bird feeder. I'm going through wildlife withdrawal since I came home to England again. My parents had a rescue permit and native/endangered permits so as you can imagine I quite miss the feathered furry and scaled beasties living in a flat.
I must say this is a bloody good site. Nice to be around fellow wildlife lovers.

Alice

tintin · Dec 9, 2004

I have flocks of up to 40 house sparrows in my garden everyday and have occasionaly seen flocks of up to 30 tree sparrows visit the garden in summer.

Found this on the BTO website:

House Sparrow populations in farmland have declined by nearly 50% since 1968, while those in urban and suburban habitats have declined by 56%.

And apparently the current population level of Tree Sparrows is only about 3% of what was around in the 60s and 70s.

Nightranger · Dec 10, 2004

tintin said:
I have flocks of up to 40 house sparrows in my garden everyday and have occasionaly seen flocks of up to 30 tree sparrows visit the garden in summer.

Found this on the BTO website:

House Sparrow populations in farmland have declined by nearly 50% since 1968, while those in urban and suburban habitats have declined by 56%.

And apparently the current population level of Tree Sparrows is only about 3% of what was around in the 60s and 70s.

Hi All,

The BTO figures on house sparrows may be a conservative etimate because the decline may have long since passed the 60% mark. It is always difficult to know which way to go because all populations are estimates and the tendency is to estimate on the high side because to do otherwise would be seen as unnecessary scaremongering. Unfortunately, house sparrows have small ranges and there does not seem to be a juvenile dispersal phase (as is the case with tree sparrows) and this is leading to some scary thoughts. Many house sparrow populations are now isolated and are extremely vulnerable to localised short-term change. One severe winter or a disease could easily wipe out some of these populations even if they appear healthy at the moment. There is much that can be done for urban sparrows but the rural population is a different matter. It is making the production of a blanket recovery plan extremely complex although a recent PHd study should help shed some light.

Ian

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