catching birds of prey (1 Viewer)

Hi,

a few days ago i went ringing with a ornithologist from my area. We catched a buzzard with a bal chatri and a mice as bait. We had a conversation about the stress of the mouse and he told me that he had the idea of a electronical moving mouse imitation. Not only that the worries about the stress becomes obsolete. Sometimes the mouse is just sitting in a corner or it becomes to cold/hot. All this problems would be solved with a device like this. But neither he or i am very technical guys. So my question is, how are you catching birds of prey? Always with a mouse? Or is there already a electronical mouse invented/to buy? Are there any alternatives for a living mouse?

The birds we catch are buzzards and falcons.

Using a live mammal or bird as bait is illegal in the UK, and also unethical for me in any circumstances.

Dead bait would be a more ethical alternative, and is easily available. It may not be as effective, but that is outweighed by the stress and suffering caused to a living animal.

Is it not possible to catch them at the nest for this study? What is the purpose of catching these specific birds - what is the study?

Thank you for your answer!

I understand what you mean and i am concerned about the living bait too. Ringing is new for me and i am more some kind of apprentice. But the ornithologist who is teaching me is studyied and doing this for over 20 years now. Using a mice seems not uncommon in germany as i have understand that others will do it the same. Which does not mean that it is not unethical. The intention of my question should show that i am struggling with this topic too.

The project is called monitoring birds of prey and owls. Catching the birds is a part of it. He is also ringing young birds in their nest too. The purpose is to achieve knowledge about migration pattern, age of the birds, location bound etc. As more birds are ringed as higher is the chance of finding rings again.

Ringing is a very inefficient way of doing these tkinds of studies (of movements), and I am not sure that the rate of ring returns justifies the use of live bait (typcially 1% of birds ringed in the UK are ever reported again by the public).

Radio or satellite tracking would be a much better investment of time and money, as you would need to capture far fewer birds in order to gather much more data. That means you could use a more inefficient trapping method, such as dead bait, to avoid the unecessary suffering to live animals. I'm very surprised that use of live mice is legal in Germany, or that the ringing authority permits it.

If the ornithologist has been doing it for 20 years, they may/should have enough data on movements now to write up the study. If not, it might be useful to challenge their methods or reasons for using these techniques, and the purpose of it all - is there an actual objective, and why does it need to continue like this? It is always good for ringers to ask serious questions of each other, and what they are doing, in order to maintain high standards.

Lastly, if you feel uncomfortable with any aspect of what you are doing, then you should refuse to do it. Just because it has been going on a long time, or other people do it, does not mean that it is 'right'. Do not continue to use methods that you don't agree with, or that you think are unethical. Sometimes other ringers/researchers can get 'stuck in their ways', and not be as open to new/better/other methods as they should be. A good researcher always questions what they are doing, and why, and a good ringer puts welfare first (of birds or anything else). A good ringer is an ethical ringer.

AlfArbuthnot said:

[...] I'm very surprised that use of live mice is legal in Germany, or that the ringing authority permits it. [...]

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I doubt that the german Animal Welfare Act (Tierschutzgesetz) allows the use of live mice. Note this extract (§2 TierSchG)

Wer ein Tier hält, betreut oder zu betreuen hat,

1. muss das Tier seiner Art und seinen Bedürfnissen entsprechend angemessen ernähren, pflegen und verhaltensgerecht unterbringen,
2. darf die Möglichkeit des Tieres zu artgemäßer Bewegung nicht so einschränken, dass ihm Schmerzen oder vermeidbare Leiden oder Schäden zugefügt werden,

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Source: http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/tierschg/BJNR012770972.html

AlfArbuthnot said:

[...]
Lastly, if you feel uncomfortable with any aspect of what you are doing, then you should refuse to do it. Just because it has been going on a long time, or other people do it, does not mean that it is 'right'. Do not continue to use methods that you don't agree with, or that you think are unethical. [...] A good researcher always questions what they are doing, and why, and a good ringer puts welfare first (of birds or anything else). A good ringer is an ethical ringer.

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:t:
Thanks, I couldn´t say it better!

I think i would prefer another way too.

What i want to add is, the mouse does not die or get hurt. It is in a seperate cage and the bird can not reach it.

Odradek said:

I think i would prefer another way too.

What i want to add is, the mouse does not die or get hurt. It is in a seperate cage and the bird can not reach it.

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The mouse is put in fear of its life as the predator approaches and tries to kill it. That is deemed as unacceptable suffering and cruelty in UK law, and perhaps German law too.

To use a clumsy but simple analogy, a person with a gun pointed at their head is not hurt or killed, but we can appreciate that it still causes a substantial degree of terrified suffering to point a gun at someone. In fact, it is termed as 'torture' to put someone in fear of their life. By analogy therefore, it is also 'torture' for a mouse to be subjected to the same threat and fear. I do not mean to anthropomorphise it, as the analogy is obvious when you consider the fear reaction shown by the mouse. Yes it is 'only a mouse', but it is still a higher mammal. Ask the ringer if he would consider it acceptable to put a wild bird, such as a Robin or Chaffinch, in the same place as the mouse. I guess he would not, as he would think it was unethical. In which case there is no justification for using a mouse either.

Odradek said:

[...]
What i want to add is, the mouse does not die or get hurt. [...]

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It´s not of interest if the mouse dies or not.
I guess you have to agree that the mouse doesn´t have "accommodation appropriate to the species (§2TierSchG. Ziffer 1)" in a BOP trap. We must not debate further weather influences or the constriction of "movement typical for the species (§2TierSchG. Ziffer 2)".
So you see that using a live mouse isn´t only unethical but also an infringement of German law. Not the way I would choose.

I am fully convinced by his comments that if one day they find a mouse inside your fridge, you I will leave him to his house wrapped among petals of flowers and singing to that famous song from Walt Disney ...
Fernando.