EDG Resale (1 Viewer)

Bob ... It appears they are basically the same except for the time period. I understood your earlier post to say the warranty card enclosed with the replacement EDG II 10X32 has a 25 year period. That compares with the life time period for the warranty I found on the Nikon site.

As a side item, can you tell any difference in the optics between your original EDG I 10X32 and the EDG II replacement? That may be a difficult question since you were not able to compare them side by side.

Many warranties, including the mentioned Nikon warranty, are based on the "lifetime of the product", not the lifetime of the owner. Historically, Nikon has freely replaced damaged bins with new merchandise, an expensive practice as returns increase. Limiting a warranty to the original owner, reducing refurbished items to 90-day coverage and eliminating all second-hand items from coverage seems quite reasonable. Nikon EDG resale values are fickle not because of the absent warranty but because demand for the EDG is relatively low.

BruceH said:

Bob ... It appears they are basically the same except for the time period. I understood your earlier post to say the warranty card enclosed with the replacement EDG II 10X32 has a 25 year period. That compares with the life time period for the warranty I found on the Nikon site.

As a side item, can you tell any difference in the optics between your original EDG I 10X32 and the EDG II replacement? That may be a difficult question since you were not able to compare them side by side.

Click to expand...

Bruce,

There doesn't seem to be much difference between them as far as the optics are concerned. I'm speaking from memory of course but I've been using the new one in mostly the same places I used my old one which I was really impressed with! It is very bright and controls glare, especially veiling glare, better than any other binocular I have. It has long 17.3mm eye relief, same as the old, which I like very much.

One big external change I noticed was with the rubber protection "bumper" on the front of the Objective tubes. The EDG I had much thicker and longer ones which impressed me because during the first 6 weeks I owned it I dropped the binocular from about 3 feet onto the wooden parquet floor in my kitchen twice and it landed on this "bumper" both times and no damage resulted. I also thought it added some more depth in front of the objectives and helped to control stray light from there.

Other than that I much prefer the ergonomics of the EDG II and its single hinge construction over that of the open framed EDG I.

Bob

Bob ..... Thanks for the comparative information. I have read previously that the EDG-I optics carried over to the EDG II and it sounds like your experience confirms that. So far my EDG-I 10X32 is holding up well but I have not had it near as long as you had yours. I do recall reading some posts a couple of years ago from a Game and Fish employee who used his EDG-I daily for work and had covering problems. The EDG II does have much more wrap around the barrel and it appears to be slightly thicker. Hopefully you will not have that problem anymore. One other difference I noticed between the EDG II line and my one and only EDG-I is that my EDG-I has a little less tension when turning the focus knob. I do not know if that is unique to my EDG-I or is common between the two generations.

You made me look at the depth of the objectives on my EDG-I and you are right, they are way back in there. It will be interesting over time to see if your new EDG II handles stray light as well as the EDG-I did. I suspect it will be good based on my own field experiences and an in store comparision I did between my EDG II 8X32 and a SV 8X32. The SV had problems with stray light from the overhead lighting but the EDG II had no problems.

I can see were the EDG II may be more comfortable for some. Not having large hands, each work equally well for me.

When it comes to resale value, the EDG II takes a hit compared to the SV EL, but the EDG-I takes even a bigger hit. If it is true that Nikon will no longer honor the No Fault Policy, then there is even a bigger risk in buying an EDG-I since there is a greater possibility of a diopter problem and possibly armor issues with the EDG-I. In the past it was not much of a concern because a second owner could send it in to Nikon (like Dennis did) and for ten bucks, get it fixed or replaced. This may no longer be the case. If Nikon decides not to repair it (as in your case) then that is a big issue for a second owner. I have read in the past where Nikon offered a discount on a new replacement, but some of the discounted prices were more than promotional sale price from some sellers.

It's all about making money vs. it's all about making more.

BruceH said:

Bob ..... Thanks for the comparative information. I have read previously that the EDG-I optics carried over to the EDG II and it sounds like your experience confirms that. So far my EDG-I 10X32 is holding up well but I have not had it near as long as you had yours. I do recall reading some posts a couple of years ago from a Game and Fish employee who used his EDG-I daily for work and had covering problems. The EDG II does have much more wrap around the barrel and it appears to be slightly thicker. Hopefully you will not have that problem anymore. One other difference I noticed between the EDG II line and my one and only EDG-I is that my EDG-I has a little less tension when turning the focus knob. I do not know if that is unique to my EDG-I or is common between the two generations.

You made me look at the depth of the objectives on my EDG-I and you are right, they are way back in there. It will be interesting over time to see if your new EDG II handles stray light as well as the EDG-I did. I suspect it will be good based on my own field experiences and an in store comparision I did between my EDG II 8X32 and a SV 8X32. The SV had problems with stray light from the overhead lighting but the EDG II had no problems.

I can see were the EDG II may be more comfortable for some. Not having large hands, each work equally well for me.

When it comes to resale value, the EDG II takes a hit compared to the SV EL, but the EDG-I takes even a bigger hit. If it is true that Nikon will no longer honor the No Fault Policy, then there is even a bigger risk in buying an EDG-I since there is a greater possibility of a diopter problem and possibly armor issues with the EDG-I. In the past it was not much of a concern because a second owner could send it in to Nikon (like Dennis did) and for ten bucks, get it fixed or replaced. This may no longer be the case. If Nikon decides not to repair it (as in your case) then that is a big issue for a second owner. I have read in the past where Nikon offered a discount on a new replacement, but some of the discounted prices were more than promotional sale price from some sellers.

Click to expand...

Bruce,

Concerning the armoring I noticed that the EDG II has a harder, tighter covering with minimal cushioning. Because of the EDG II's design the covering also goes further around the objective tubes in areas than it did on the EDG I. On the EDG I the inside part of the objective tubes between the hinges, which amounted to about 20% plus or minus of the circumference, were solid metal without any coverings. The bubbling on mine first showed up at the top seam of the right objective tube where the coverings were cut to fit up against the metal and where my fingers were usually moving around while focusing. I have fidgety fingers and I'm sure they played a part.

There is no change in the distance the Focus Wheel travels on either model and it can be measured by using the Nikon Logo on the face of the Focus Wheel. Put the focus in the close up stop position. Pull out the cover of the focus wheel exposing the diopter wheel, then line up the word "Nikon" vertically in the 12 O'Clock-6 O'Clock position and push the cover firmly back over the diopter wheel. Start focusing and Infinity will be at about the 10 O'Clock position and focus past infinity will stop at about the 2 O'Clock position, just past one full revolution of the focus wheel.

Focusing is fast but tension seemed to me to be about the same on both of them.

Bob

Followup to Warranty Changes USA

Bob - Thanks for the additional information.

----------

Here is the response I received from Nikon Support in response to my question on warranty changes. I have submitted a followup question to find out specifically what applies to Nikon binoculars purchased prior to the 2014 change.


From Nikon:


Thank you for contacting Nikon and I would be more than happy to assist you with your question.

Nikon does not offer the no-fault warranty policy anymore on our Sport Optics products. The 25 year/no fault warranty policy was replaced at the beginning of this year with a limited lifetime warranty.

The Limited Lifetime warranty covers all damage that is not related to impact or sand, or water if the product is not waterproof.

I have included a link below to the lifetime warranty policy:

Answer Title: Nikon Sport Optics Warranty Information
Answer Link: https://support.nikonusa.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/16813

Thank you for contacting Nikon and have a wonderful day.

If true, Nikon better tell their distributors to stop including the No-Fault language in product advertisements!
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=Nikon+no-fault&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ma

http://www.adorama.com/NK1042EDGN.html
look under what's included

BruceH said:

Bob - Thanks for the additional information.

----------

Here is the response I received from Nikon Support in response to my question on warranty changes. I have submitted a followup question to find out specifically what applies to Nikon binoculars purchased prior to the 2014 change.


From Nikon:


Thank you for contacting Nikon and I would be more than happy to assist you with your question.

Nikon does not offer the no-fault warranty policy anymore on our Sport Optics products. The 25 year/no fault warranty policy was replaced at the beginning of this year with a limited lifetime warranty.

The Limited Lifetime warranty covers all damage that is not related to impact or sand, or water if the product is not waterproof.

I have included a link below to the lifetime warranty policy:

Answer Title: Nikon Sport Optics Warranty Information
Answer Link: https://support.nikonusa.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/16813

Thank you for contacting Nikon and have a wonderful day.

Click to expand...

So is Nikon getting out of the optics business?

It sure seems that way.

Or are they going to concentrate on their bread and butter cheap Monarch lines?

At this time I wouldn't even consider an EDG of any sort, be it scope or binocular.

Common Nikon!

Bryce...

BruceH said:

Bob - Thanks for the additional information.

----------

Here is the response I received from Nikon Support in response to my question on warranty changes. I have submitted a followup question to find out specifically what applies to Nikon binoculars purchased prior to the 2014 change.


From Nikon:


Thank you for contacting Nikon and I would be more than happy to assist you with your question.

Nikon does not offer the no-fault warranty policy anymore on our Sport Optics products. The 25 year/no fault warranty policy was replaced at the beginning of this year with a limited lifetime warranty.

The Limited Lifetime warranty covers all damage that is not related to impact or sand, or water if the product is not waterproof.

I have included a link below to the lifetime warranty policy:

Answer Title: Nikon Sport Optics Warranty Information
Answer Link: https://support.nikonusa.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/16813

Thank you for contacting Nikon and have a wonderful day.

Click to expand...

This doesn't make much sense:

"The Limited Lifetime warranty covers all damage that is not related to impact or sand, or water if the product is not waterproof."

What other kind of "damage" could there be one would want to get repaired? Do they mean that only mechanical problems are covered? Who knows? :h?:

Moving parts like eyecups and focus wheels and hinges can wear out. Are they covered?

I think that "Nikon Support" should run questions about their warranty coverage through their legal division before responding to questions about it.

Bob

Hello Bob,

At one time, I owned two Nikon binoculars, the E2 and the SE. I found the accessories to be woefully inadequate: cases without straps; objective covers and rainguards which would fall off. The reply from Nikon service was a brushoff, "No one else has complained." This left me with rather negative feeligs about Nikon USA service.

After reading Nikon's explanation of their service policy, I see a shift. As etudiant pointed out, Alphas big selling points are mechancial reliability, backed by great service. I have to guess that the firm is abandoning the alpha market to Zeiss and that Austrian firm, and maybe even that they may abandon the next tier. If I am not mistaken, the new Monarchs cannot compete with binoculars like the Conquest HD.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur

Pinewood said:

Hello Bob,

At one time, I owned two Nikon binoculars, the E2 and the SE. I found the accessories to be woefully inadequate: cases without straps; objective covers and rainguards which would fall off. The reply from Nikon service was a brushoff, "No one else has complained." This left me with rather negative feeligs about Nikon USA service.

After reading Nikon's explanation of their service policy, As etudiant pointed out, Alphas big selling points are mechancial reliabitly, backed by great service. I have to guess that the firm is abandoning the alpha market to Zeiss and that Austrian firm, and maybe even that they may abandon the next tier. If I am not mistaken, the new Monarchs cannot compete with binoculars like the Conquest HD.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur

Click to expand...

Hi Arthur,

Yes, I agree that Nikon has been rather cheap with the accessories on their Alpha binoculars going back to about 1995 and 1998 when they were introducing the SEs and EIIs. They did the same thing with the LX series accessories when it was released too.

I don't think they are going to get out of the Alpha market though. I'm starting to think that they might be preparing to lower the prices of the EDG to make them more competitive.

The warranty is factored into the price of the binocular and Nikon's new warranty came out this year. So when I see an ad from an English Dealer offering to sell a new Nikon 7x42 EDG II for 999.99 English pounds I wonder if it is the beginning of a price decrease from Nikon.

http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=3091460&postcount=127

Also see the 3 posts prior to the one above in that thread.

Wishful thinking perhaps, but I don't see them leaving the Alpha binocular market and becoming a bit player. There is nothing really unique in the optics of the EDG that cost the company a lot of money and research to produce. They must have lost money on the EDG I and also from the Tsunami but they are still churning out binoculars and may be breaking even by now.

Nikon has had a "flat field" binocular since 1995 and the optics on the EDG are close enough to allow them to compete with the Europeans on an equal basis at a lower price.


Bob

More Followup to Nikon Warranty Changs USA

I got another response back from Nikon in regards to how the change applies to binoculars purchased under the old Limited Warranty and No Fault Policy.

My note to Nikon:

I have several Nikon binoculars purchased prior to 2014 when the No Fault Policy was in effect. I understand the No Fault Policy was cancelled in 2014 and any products sold from that point on now have the new Limited Lifetime Warranty. However, what is the status of my older binoculars that were purchased under the 25 Year Limited Warranty and the No Fault Policy? What applies to them: The original 25 Year Limited Warranty and the No Fault Policy, or the 25 Year Limited Warranty but without the No Fault Warranty, or the new Life Time Warranty?

The reply from Nikon:

The new Limited Lifetime warranty policy would apply to all of your sport optics products. Basically, as long as your products don't sustain any damage to misuse (impact), sand, or liquid damage (if they are non-waterproof), your products would be covered under the lifetime warranty.

Thank you for contacting Nikon and have a wonderful day.


My take on this is that all binoculars purchased new from Nikon, either before or after the 2014 change now are covered under the new Limited Lifetime Warranty. This means the binoculars I purchased before 2014 with written representations of having life time no fault coverage at a cost of $10 and the ability to transfer this coverage to a subsequent owner has been taken away. I now have free lifetime coverage rather than 25 years but it is just for defects in materials and workmanship and any subsequent buyers are on their own.

My thought is Nikon has pulled the rug out from under me and has taken away value.

Bottom line, anybody who buys a used Nikon binocular, no matter when it was made or sold has no warranty. That can only hurt resale value, the question is by how much.

BruceH said:

I got another response back from Nikon in regards to how the change applies to binoculars purchased under the old Limited Warranty and No Fault Policy.




My thought is Nikon has pulled the rug out from under me and has taken away value.

Bottom line, anybody who buys a used Nikon binocular, no matter when it was made or sold has no warranty. That can only hurt resale value, the question is by how much.

Click to expand...

Back when we sold Nikon products, I was always careful to make the distinction with customers that Nikon had a "no-fault policy", which is different than a warranty. A warranty implies an obligation of sorts, whereas policies can easily come and go at the whim of the provider. I never saw any publication or correspondence from Nikon that had the word "warranty" following the words "no-fault".

Ben

Ben Lizdas
Sales Manager
Eagle Optics
1-800-289-1132
www.eagleoptics.com

Some quick thoughts in reaction to the last few posts about the No Fault policy:

Someone ought to post the info about the discontinuance of the No Fault policy in a separate thread--it is valuable information buried here.

That said, I must say that even though I own a lot of Nikon binoculars, scopes, and camera equipment, I've never made use of the No Fault policy. The only problems I've had with Nikon products were those that revealed themselves early-on in items that I purchased new, so they were all covered at no cost under the (then) standard 25-year warranty. The multitude of much older units that I got used or as hand-me-downs have not had any problems, even though they've been used for decades.

So long as Nikon maintains/institutes competitive pricing on new products, I don't mind having to pay for repairs that are due to my accidents or neglect. Apart from the loss of free accident coverage, it seems the most significant effect may be on the value of used equipment. For me, a drop in used prices is nothing but good. I buy both new and used, but regardless, I don't buy anything with the intention to or concern for its resale value (I'm always amazed at people who buy cars who seem more concerned about maintaining its resale value than in enjoying the product that they ostensibly own). Silly not to buy a product because of its potential resale value.

With the loss of the No Fault policy, Nikon has corrected the crazy policy of providing better repair service for used items bought from another person/business directly as compared to official Nikon used/refurbished units.

I don't think, for the above reasons, that I'll be missing the No Fault policy, but I did like the idea of it.

On miscellaneous other topics:

Nikon has had flat-field bins since long before 1995 (e.g. Prostar, Astroluxe, Classic Eagle).

Did/does Nikon provide cheap "accesories" ? Neck straps might not have been the most comfortable designs, but they've never been cheap. Cases have mostly been fairly basic, but they are functional (older ones, such as the hard case for my 8x40 Classic Eagle, were sometimes fancier). Ocular and objective caps have followed the old idea that their only function is to protect the bin in shipping, not to function like tethered ones do in the field. I don't use tethered caps myself, or ocular guards except on rare occasions, but if I did, I think I'd still be unlikely to use Nikon's unless they did a better job designing them than have Swarovski, Leica, and Zeiss in many instances, so better to keep costs down by leaving them out.

--AP

Alexis Powell said:

.......

Someone ought to post the info about the discontinuance of the No Fault policy in a separate thread--it is valuable information buried here.

.............

--AP

Click to expand...

Done ......

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?p=3093028#post3093028

In my case there was effectively no difference in the policy prior to 2014 and the new one after 2014.

I bought a Nikon 10x32 EDG I in June of 2010 and used it 4 years when I sent it back to Nikon in June 2014 for needed repairs which were not caused by "misuse, sand or liquid damage." The coverings on the objective tubes were bubbling and working loose and the ridged rubber cover surrounding the focus wheel had stretched and was interfering with the focusing. There was no problem with the diopter.

Nikon exercised their option to replace it rather than repair it and I received a new 10x32 EDG II.

I sent it to Nikon USA in California by UPS. They acknowledged receipt on 6/24 and I received my new ones by UPS ground on 7/16/2014. There was a slight delay because they had to get the replacement from Japan

This did not cost me anything other than one way postage with insurance to Nikon. I now have 2 cases, 2 straps 2 rainguards and 2 sets of horned eyecups for the new binocular because I was instructed to send only the old binocular to them.

I'm very satisfied with the service I received from Nikon and have no problems with their warranty.

Bob

Bob .... If you had bought that EDG I 10X32 used, then you may very will be left with an unrepairable binocular under the new policy. In your case it was mainly external cosmetic issues so the binocular would still be functional. However if it was the frequently discussed diopter issue, then it could possibly be boat anchor time! Under the old No Fault Replacement policy it was not an issue. If it was not repairable, then it was replaced.

If you were looking to buy a used Nikon EDG, would the change in policy have an impact on your decision to buy? It is something I would definitely take into consideration and weigh it against the price. An issue is that if Nikon says they can not repair it, then the owner is looking at a much bigger cost to replace it compared to if it was repairable. There is now more risk in buying a used Nikon and I think that would impact resale.

Bruce,

I bought a "Demo" Leica 8x42 Ultravid "Blackline" (Leather covered) CameraLand recently at a very good price. It had never been out of the box. It came with a "Pre-owned" warranty card which stated it was good for 10 years or "18 months from the date of last service shown on the card." It isn't transferable.

What this tells me is that Leica is now giving the purchaser the kind of warranty he paid for when he bought the binocular. Fully priced binoculars will have better warranties and I think that is going to happen with all the Alpha binoculars in the future.

I bought a Leica 7x42 Trinovid 8 years ago from Cabelas at about 40% off their new price after the Trinovids were discontinued and a I got a Lifetime Warranty with it. Leica doesn't do that anymore.

If you want lifetime and fully transferable warranties you are going to have to pay for them. Swarovski and Zeiss have never been fixing the 2nd hand binoculars they get for repairs to create "good will," or out of the goodness of their hearts either, despite what their dealers want you to think. They have repair technicians who make very good salaries and benefits and the money to pay them has to come from somewhere and it comes from the original purchasers!

TANSTAAFL

Bob

This whole thing is insane. The warranty on an optical instrument should cover the instrument itself and not be tied to the original owner. By what logic does it make any difference at all who the original owner was? Moreover, how many original owners retain documentation to prove they were the original owners? And what about children/grandchildren who receive presents or an inheritance? What about friends who trade instruments? What about resale for moving up the ladder?

Nope. Sorry, Nikon, this is the very last straw. In future I'll have nothing more to do with your products. I'm not even interested in reading reviews about them.

And that's my new permanent lifetime policy! And it's your fault. :C

Ed