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Parrotbill Taxonomy Revisited

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Old Wednesday 28th March 2007, 08:56   #1
cuckooroller
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Parrotbill Taxonomy Revisited

I knew someone was looking at them, but haven't seen anything. Will try and look at this site tonight. Excerpted from the OB list-server.

"Dear Friends,

I am happy to announce that I have just finished updating all the entries
for Parrotbills on my website (http://worldbirdinfo.net
<http://worldbirdinfo.net> )

This is a radically new analysis. Recent molecular evidence from a paper
delivered by Carol K.L.Yeung et al at the 24th IOC plus an unpublished
analysis based on morphology by Craig Robson, indicates that as with the
Laughingthrushes being all dumped into Garrulax, the lumping of almost all
Parrotbills into Paradoxornis was a case of massive overlumping.

Please check it out. Remember that all my decisions are fully explained.
Check the Citations, Notes and Synonyms section.

Enjoy,

John Penhallurick
http://worldbirdinfo.net <http://worldbirdinfo.net> "
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Old Wednesday 28th March 2007, 20:36   #2
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In Synthesis:

Three-toed PB; Brown PB - new generic name = Cholornis

Greater Rufous-headed PB; Grey-headed PB - new generic name = Psittiparus
Sp.nov. - Grey-headed PB loses race margaritae that is elevated to species level = Black-headed Parrotbill (Psittiparus margaritae).

Black-breasted PB; Spot-breasted PB; Reed PB - remain with genus name Paradoxornis.
Sp.nov. - Reed PB loses race polivanovi that is elevated to species level (two races; nominate, mongolicus) as Northern Parrotbill (Paradoxornis polivanovi). N.B. This had previously been split by some authorities.

Short-tailed PB - new generic name = Neosuthora

Lesser Rufous-headed PB - new generic name = Chleuasicus

Spectacled PB; Brown-winged PB; Vinous-throated PB; Grey-hooded PB; Rusty-throated PB - new generic name = Sinornis.

N.B. The HM race erlangschanicus associated with Sinornis zappeyi is submerged and therefore zappeyi is monotypic

The sometimes split Ashy-throated Parrotbill (i.e., alphonsianus with associated race yunnanensis) is here submerged within Sinornis webbianus as races.

Sp. nov. - Sinornis brunneus loses race ricketti which is elevated to specific status as Yunnan Parrotbill (Sinornis ricketti).

Fulvous PB; Black-throated PB; Golden PB - new generic name = Suthora

N.B.: race craddocki formerly associated with Black-throated PB is now reassociated with Golden Parrotbill as a race.

Sp.nov. - the Black-throated PB also loses races poliotis, humii, crocotia, ripponi, feae, beaulieui, kamoli and patriciae (which latter may be synonymous with the Chin Hills ripponi) and they are collectively elevated to specific status as Ashy-eared Parrotbill (Suthora poliotis).
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Old Saturday 7th April 2007, 17:06   #3
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Spectacled PB; Brown-winged PB; Vinous-throated PB; Grey-hooded PB; Rusty-throated PB - new generic name = Sinornis.

I see he's proposing the new generic name Sinornis for a cluster of species - this name, however, is already in use for a fossil species from China - see the link:
http://www.bowdoin.edu/~dbensen/Dino...santensis.html
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Old Saturday 7th April 2007, 17:30   #4
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Hi TA,
Do you have a date on original description of Sinornis type (i.e. the fossil species)?

Good observation regardless. I have copied your link over to John Pennhallurick and I am sure he will refer.
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Old Saturday 7th April 2007, 18:07   #5
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TA,
I can find a precedent use of Suthora, but not Sinornis, as applied to living bird species. Another question to which I do not have an answer at present is the observation on P. 461, Vol. 2, of the Ripley Guide in re: Conostoma. This nomen generis may be precedently preoccupied by a dipteran according to them.
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Old Sunday 8th April 2007, 04:56   #6
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[quote=cuckooroller]Hi TA,
Do you have a date on original description of Sinornis type (i.e. the fossil species)?

Hi Steve,

Here's the reference I found for Sinornis:

Sinornis Sereno & Rao 1992 Science (Washington D C) 255 No. 5046: 845.

I got this from the following website, which is great for searching any Zoological generic name, extant or extinct:

http://uio.mbl.edu/NomenclatorZoologicus/

I used this site to search for Conostoma - and got quite an interesting result. The first use of the name is indeed applicable to a Dipteran, by Rudolphi in 1801; however, this is apparently a typo or an (unjustified?) emendation for the generic name "Conosoma", erected by Lenz in 1794. The next use of Conostoma is for the bird (Hodgson [1842]). I'm not sure if a typo or an emendation makes the name subsequently unavailable for use later; I'm not familiar enough with the rules of the code to be able to determine this. It may be something that needs to be ruled on and apparently these decisions take decades. The name Conostoma was also applied to both a fish and a crustacean, but these were more recent than the Parrotbill and as such are unavailable to them.

Hope this is of interest,
Liam
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Old Sunday 8th April 2007, 09:37   #7
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Thanks Liam. Good link and I have bookmarked it.
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Old Tuesday 10th April 2007, 09:21   #8
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Liam,
I have had a referral to both questions. Also a probably non-fettered generic name, but not wanting to play cutesy before publication, please send me your e-mail via PM and I will refer privately on this.
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Old Wednesday 11th April 2007, 06:48   #9
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Hi Steve,

It looks like very interesting, and it's more useful for protecting them as my opinion. But the merge about Ashy-throated Parrotbill is confused to me, I often observe the two races under Vinus and Ashy stay together in non-breeding season, and in breeding period they live in same area but have no mix-breeding phenomenon.
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Old Sunday 20th May 2007, 10:08   #10
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I'm puzzled too!
Aren't alphonsianus and webbianus the two exotic species established in the Brabbia marshes in Italy? If they were the same species surely they would've thoroughly mixed by now.
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Old Sunday 20th May 2007, 11:18   #11
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I'm puzzled too!
Aren't alphonsianus and webbianus the two exotic species established in the Brabbia marshes in Italy? If they were the same species surely they would've thoroughly mixed by now.
Hi Sandy,
I thought it was only alphonsianus in Italy. Will have to check.
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Old Sunday 20th May 2007, 20:26   #12
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Hi Cuckooroller

This was covered on BF here http://www.birdforum.net/showthread....ighlight=italy

What the current status of webbianus in Italy is I've no idea.

I notice heudei was left in Paradoxornis on Penhallurick's website. I wonder if it would be better placed in the new genus Psittiparus.
Also Neosuthora davidiana is listed as P. davidianus which I think is an oversight.
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Old Sunday 20th May 2007, 20:50   #13
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Sandy,
Yes, the listing of davidianus would appear erroneous (yes, now I recall having noticed this at that time which is why I changed it in the blurb at the start of the thread). Will have to pass a note to the site owner on this for clarification. I see that he has changed those he had listed in Sinornis to the apparently unfettered Sinoparadoxornis. Will have to check heudei. We may have to finally wait for the publication of Vol. 12 HBW where the taxonomy will supposedly be as correct as current knowledge will allow.

EDIT: In re: heudei. I haven't seen the paper on which these determinations have been made, but apparently heudei would cluster with the others left also in Paradoxornis. I would have to see a valid reason to extrapolate it from these others and reassociate it with those now being proposed as genus Psittiparus.
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Old Sunday 20th May 2007, 22:07   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cuckooroller View Post
EDIT: In re: heudei. I haven't seen the paper on which these determinations have been made, but apparently heudei would cluster with the others left also in Paradoxornis. I would have to see a valid reason to extrapolate it from these others and reassociate it with those now being proposed as genus Psittiparus.
Aha you got me!
There is no paper at least not as far as I know. I was trying to stimulate debate after er....looking at the parrotbill plate in my copy of Birds of China. I reckoned heudei size and plumage was most similar to Psittiparus gularis of the species illustrated. Of course it will need to be studied biochemically and since it is rather distinctive it may end up in another new genus!
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Old Sunday 20th May 2007, 23:42   #15
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Re. heudei

Duh! How did I miss this?

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parrotbill

Reed Parrotbill Paradoxornis ([sub]genus Calamornis) heudei, based on egg colouration data paper by Walters (2006).

Walters, Michael (2006): Colour in birds’ eggs: the collections of the Natural History Museum, Tring. Historical Biology 18(2): 141–204. DOI:10.1080/08912960600640887

Hope this is useful.
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Old Monday 21st May 2007, 06:37   #16
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er....looking at the parrotbill plate in my copy of Birds of China. I reckoned heudei size and plumage was most similar to Psittiparus gularis of the species illustrated. Of course it will need to be studied biochemically and since it is rather distinctive it may end up in another new genus!
Sandy,
There is a citation for the "review" paper on Pennhallurick's site, and I know that between he and Craig Robson there was more than a bit of "personal communication" before he revised the taxonomy on the site. Robson of course has in hand the section in Vol. 12 HBW that deals with Paradoxornithidae. For me, egg coloration and markings are at best a corroborative factor and certainly not enough to propose anything serious! As far as the Plates in the MacKinnon (which I also have) - perhaps it is more charitable to extend a piteous veil on this much maligned book while waiting for a better book!!!
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Old Monday 21st May 2007, 09:04   #17
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Steve
Its the 80's guide I've got by Rodolphe Meyer de Schauensee, which is hopelessly outdated as a fieldguide for China. Some of the plates are average though probably of little use when confronted with some nondescript LBJ.
The parrotbill plate was illustrated by John H. Dick and has a cartoon-like quality which is rather pleasing, but not in the same league as Robsons Birds of Southeast Asia.
I dread to think what the Mackinnons guide is like!
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Old Monday 21st May 2007, 19:05   #18
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I dread to think what the Mackinnons guide is like!
Its pretty good at knocking in nails!
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Old Tuesday 22nd May 2007, 01:59   #19
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[quote=Acanthis;894661]Duh! How did I miss this?

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parrotbill

Reed Parrotbill Paradoxornis ([sub]genus Calamornis) heudei, based on egg colouration data paper by Walters (2006).

QUOTE]

In the Wikipedia article they have the Reed Parrotbill in the (sub)genus Calamornis, while the Northern Parrotbill (P. polivanovi) stays in Paradoxornis. Unless there is something I'm unaware of, this would seem to be an error, as P. polivanovi was until recently considered to be a subspecies of Paradoxornis (Calamornis) heudei. Also, rather disappointingly, it doesn't look like P. polivanovi will be illustrated in the upcoming volume of HBW, as there is only one figure of a Reed-type Parrotbill on one of there sample plates here:
http://www.hbw.com/lynx/en/handbook-...fragmentsId=3#
Maybe in the end it's not all that different from P. heudei anyways, and will continue to be treated as a subspecies.
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Old Tuesday 22nd May 2007, 12:57   #20
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I dread to think what the Mackinnons guide is like!
It's a coffee table book then. It makes a great coaster.
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Old Tuesday 22nd May 2007, 13:59   #21
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In the Wikipedia article they have the Reed Parrotbill in the (sub)genus Calamornis, while the Northern Parrotbill (P. polivanovi) stays in Paradoxornis. Unless there is something I'm unaware of, this would seem to be an error, as P. polivanovi was until recently considered to be a subspecies of Paradoxornis (Calamornis) heudei. Also, rather disappointingly, it doesn't look like P. polivanovi will be illustrated in the upcoming volume of HBW, as there is only one figure of a Reed-type Parrotbill on one of there sample plates here:
http://www.hbw.com/lynx/en/handbook-...fragmentsId=3#
Maybe in the end it's not all that different from P. heudei anyways, and will continue to be treated as a subspecies.[/quote]

Yesterday I received a series of photographs of "polivanovi" in the book "In the World of Birds ". They compare quite well with the illustration in HBW 12, which I assume is of "heudei". The only difference I can see is the plain crown in "heudei" which in "polivanovi" is streaked with black and chestnut. But what about the Mongolian Reed Parrotbill ? Described after "polivanovi" as another new subspecies of "heudei" and never heard of again, as far as I can judge. I hope HBW 12 comes up with some more info. An illustration of this bird is evidently not given either.
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Old Thursday 24th May 2007, 03:54   #22
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Yesterday I received a series of photographs of "polivanovi" in the book "In the World of Birds ". They compare quite well with the illustration in HBW 12, which I assume is of "heudei". The only difference I can see is the plain crown in "heudei" which in "polivanovi" is streaked with black and chestnut. But what about the Mongolian Reed Parrotbill ? Described after "polivanovi" as another new subspecies of "heudei" and never heard of again, as far as I can judge. I hope HBW 12 comes up with some more info. An illustration of this bird is evidently not given either.
Looking at the photos I have available for the two taxa (24 heudei and 8 polivanovi) I don't see any striking differences. Some individuals of both show a bit of streaking to the crown and mantle, but in most this is reduced to some very faint streaking on the mantle and a bit of streaking above the black eye-brow. In a few it is entirely absent or can only be hinted as a faint rufous tinge at the base of the eye-brow. It could appear that polivanovi is a bit paler than heudei, but this also seems to be somewhat variable within each taxon. Anyhow, perhaps I'm just missing some obvious difference, or the photos I have available fail to show the differences clearly.
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Old Tuesday 26th June 2007, 13:19   #23
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Hi guys,

"Recent molecular evidence from a paper delivered by Carol K.L.Yeung et al at the 24th IOC plus an unpublished analysis based on morphology by Craig Robson"

Can anyone share me this paper? I'm becoming more and more confused between Vinous-throated Parrotbill and Ashy-throated Parrotbill, there are more evidences show that they occur in same place and in same flock usually.

As one of the reasons of being a species, if they are two different species, they occur in same palce is very reasonable. But it contravenes the race rules. However, also because of the "too usually", I can't believe that they are two different species. As my opinion, in west of Sichuan, the race suffusus and alphonsianus either are same race with different morphs or ages as synonyms, or are two different species.

Could anybody do me a favor. Any help would be appreciate :)
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Old Friday 29th June 2007, 14:32   #24
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I'm puzzled too!
Aren't alphonsianus and webbianus the two exotic species established in the Brabbia marshes in Italy? If they were the same species surely they would've thoroughly mixed by now.
Both webbianus and alphonsianus types are in the Brabbia marsh, but they do interbreed to a certain extent. You can easily find many intermediate-looking birds in mixed flocks there. Someone is studying the problem and doing genetic work so more light should be shed on this issue soon.
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Old Saturday 30th June 2007, 08:34   #25
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Both webbianus and alphonsianus types are in the Brabbia marsh, but they do interbreed to a certain extent. You can easily find many intermediate-looking birds in mixed flocks there. Someone is studying the problem and doing genetic work so more light should be shed on this issue soon.
That's a good news! So how to confirm the race in Italy of "Vinous-throated" PB is webbianus and the race of "Ashy-throated" PB is alphonsianus and that were not other subspecies? Is there any papers showed the resource the race and from where had they been introduced?
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