Full Geese species? (1 Viewer)

Andrew

wibble wibble

• Sep 28, 2003

• #1

I have checked the Collins guide for a list of full geese species and come up with the following . . . .

Greater White-fronted Goose,
Lesser White-fronted Goose,
Bean Goose,
Pink Footed Goose,
Greylag Goose,
Canada Goose,
Barnacle Goose,
Brent Goose,
Red-breasted Goose,
Common Shelduck,
Ruddy Shelduck,
Egyptian Goose,
Bar-headed Goose.

. . . . . . I am wondering if some have been split into separate full species since the book's publication. I have come across European and Greenland White Fronted Geese in various texts, have these been split? What about any others I have missed? I am not really concerned with any that may not occur in the UK.

 

L

logos

Well-known member

• Sep 28, 2003

• #2

No official splits by the BOU to date Andrew, though the most likely future splits concern the subspecies of White-fronted Geese (which you mention), Bean Geese (Taiga and Tundra races) and perhaps Brent Goose.

It is concievable that Canada Goose may be split in the future and some of the small subspecies which may become one or more new species have occured in the Uk as vagrants (and escapes!).

Spud

 

Michael Frankis

conehead

• Sep 28, 2003

• #3

Hi Andrew,

Agreed with Spud, but also to add that Shelduck, Ruddy Shelduck and Egyptian Goose are not true geese (tribe Anserini), but shelducks (tribe Tadornini).

One more full species you missed off: Snow Goose.

Also, Bar-headed Goose is not wild in Britain, only an escape from captivity. Some other geese escape as well, notably Ross's Goose (a few people think some of these might occur as genuine vagrants) and Swan Goose (a.k.a. Chinese Goose; usually as domesticated forms). Occasional UK reports of escaped Hawaiian Goose and Emperor Goose then completes the world goose list.

Michael

 

Andrew

wibble wibble

• Sep 28, 2003

• #4

Thanks Spud and Michael, so I think I will record each goose species I come across (except escapes) even though they have not yet been split and await any potential split rather than thinking 'It ain't split yet so I won't count it'.

I have seen someone record Bar-headed Goose in their day's list (I think it was on BF) which is not quite a true countable tick, isn't it?

Strange! The Snow Goose is an Anser but I did not list it because it is in the previous page under Swans which is one of the flaws in the Collins.

 

S

StevieEvans

Well-known member

• Sep 29, 2003

• #5

Bar headed Goose

I can remember reading about Bar Headed Geese breeding ferally in Sweden.

Just for arguments sake.......
If the Swedish Bird Recorders classify their Bar Headed Geese in the same/similar catagories as the UK's Canada Geese, then surely they could be "tickable" ?

S

 

Michael Frankis

conehead

• Sep 29, 2003

• #6

Hi Stevie,

I came across that remark too, and checked with someone in Sweden - it isn't true, Bar-headed Goose is not an established feral breeder there.

I was actually hoping that I might be able to get a Bar-head that turned up here in a cold weather goose influx, accepted as a vagrant from the 'Swedish feral population'. Alas, it was not to be!

Michael

 

robinm

Registered User

• Sep 29, 2003

• #7

I certainly record Bar-headed goose but I don't count it as a true "tick". I do see them quite regularly and sometimes in numbers (c20 at Stodmarsh on one occasion). If there are now substantial numbers of escapees I guess at some point a self-sustaining breeding population may develop.

 

Andrew

wibble wibble

• Sep 29, 2003

• #8

Robin, I can see that. If they grow in numbers some are bound to start breeding and go the way of Canada Geese (unless the Spanish want us to shoot 'em!). You will have one up on many in the future then. When you see a bloke ticking off Bar-headed Goose in 2025 you will be able to tell him/her you were ticking them when they were escapes!

 

S

StevieEvans

Well-known member

• Sep 29, 2003

• #9

Hello MF & Andrew

I had a Bar headed Goose (Mid April, Mid 1980's) arrive on Seal Sands together with 3 Avocets during aspell of strong cold easterlies.......

(Personally im not too bothered about list),

Is BH Goose sedentary...?......i'm sure one could make its way over here, if all those tiny siberian things can.....! Lol

Regards Steve

(MF, do you know of any other feral flocks ? maybe this can be a New Thread ?)

 

Eddie

Well-known member

• Sep 29, 2003

• #10

Steve,
The BH Goose is most certainly not sedentary. It breeds on the plains of the southern former USSR and winters on the lowlands of India and thus has to get over the Himalayas in the course of its migration (though not necessarily over the top of Everest). So it is certainly a long distance migrant and strong flyer. I will leave it to others to comtemplate its ability to get to western Europe under its own steam and in some numbers.

Eddie

 

Michael Frankis

conehead

• Sep 29, 2003

• #11

Hi Stevie,

Fortunately collecting wildfowl isn't a popular hobby in our part of the world (guess pigeons are the preferred species here!), so we have very few escaped ducks & geese compared to southern England. But it means I don't know of any establishing near-feral flocks of anything very exotic around here. All we have of note is the Mandarin Ducks colonising the North Tyne (which I consider sufficiently well established to be tickable).

Michael

 

Michael Frankis

conehead

• Sep 29, 2003

• #12

Hi Eddie,

It actually breeds on high altitude lakes on the Tibetan Plateau and the Altai, etc., mountain ranges, so it is only a short-distance migrant (for details, see Madge & Burn, Wildfowl, and BWP Concise). There aren't even any records of wild birds from the extreme east of the western Palaearctic, BWPC says "No reliable indications of westward vagrancy".

Michael

 

Andrew

wibble wibble

• Dec 10, 2003

• #13

Right, I have just ticked European White-fronted Goose. I know it is still a Greater White-fronted Goose at the moment but I want to ask if I am right in writing it down as Anser albifrons albifrons?

 

Michael Frankis

conehead

• Dec 10, 2003

• #14

Hi Andrew,

European and Greater W-fG are (at the moment!) just different names for the same thing. Yes, you have the correct Latin name.

Fun starts when you see a Greenland W-fG (currently Anser albifrons flavirostris, but there's a good body of evidence which suggests it is probably a distinct species; the decision from the BOURC is still awaited)

Michael

 

Andrew

wibble wibble

• Dec 10, 2003

• #15

Ah right, I had written it down as European White-fronted Goose in anticipation of a split coming. So what are the proposed English names for when they are split? Will the latin names become Anser albifrons and Anser flavirostris?

 

S

Steve Lister

Senior Birder, ex County Recorder, Garden Moths.

• Dec 11, 2003

• #16

Andrew said:

So what are the proposed English names for when they are split? Will the latin names become Anser albifrons and Anser flavirostris?

Click to expand...

Yes.

I suspect that the two forms of Bean Geese that occur in Britain will be split at the same time. They would become Anser fabalis and Anser serrirostris (or maybe rossicus), Taiga Bean Goose and Tundra Bean Goose respectively.

Steve

 

Andrew

wibble wibble

• Dec 11, 2003

• #17

Thanks for that Steve. I had better ensure I study the Bean Geese if I get a chance to see some and tick the right sort ahead of the forthcoming split.