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Raptors (migration) SE France September - Honey Buzzard, Eleonora's Falcon ? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter George Edwards
- Start date
Richard Prior
Halfway up an Alp
Honey Buzzards indeed George, but the raptor is a Hobby in this case.
Edit to clarify why it's not Eleonora's, look at the white cheek with the black descending into it (rounded on Eleonora's). Also the breast is white with the dark splodges, ground colour on Eleonora's is brownish, not white).
Edit to clarify why it's not Eleonora's, look at the white cheek with the black descending into it (rounded on Eleonora's). Also the breast is white with the dark splodges, ground colour on Eleonora's is brownish, not white).
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Richard Prior
Halfway up an Alp
Certainly more obvious in Eleonora's Ken, but the strong sunlight shining down on this bird shows Hobby can also show darker too:t:
KenM
Well-known member
For your benefit Richard I trawled flight images of both Hobby and Eleanora's, and trying as hard as I did.....I could only find contrastingly dark underwing coverts for EF....but not for H.
Perhaps an e-mail to Mr.Forsman or Mr.Svennsson might defer the "Binoculars at Dawn" scenario that you might be edging towards on this one.
Rotherbirder
Well-known member
Hobby; the dark underwing coverts are a product of the prevailing light conditions.
RB
RB
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rosbifs
PutAin STOP
For your benefit Richard I trawled flight images of both Hobby and Eleanora's, and trying as hard as I did.....I could only find contrastingly dark underwing coverts for EF....but not for H.
Perhaps an e-mail to Mr.Forsman or Mr.Svennsson might defer the "Binoculars at Dawn" scenario that you might be edging towards on this one.
Out of interest did you find any eleanoras falcon with a 'hobby' head pattern?
KenM
Well-known member
No I didn't! It's not a feature that I would have used in the field (A-a-a-h..so different there)....would have gone on structure...long-winged and tailed!
You're quite right! the face pattern appears to be a constant, therefore it must indeed be a hobby albeit one with (to my eye) somewhat ambiguous wing coverts which was the focus of my attention. :-C
George Edwards
Nom de plume
Thanks everyone. Consensus seems to be Hobby, which is the more common bird too, so I'll go with that. It's also the decision of the others I was with at the time when they looked at their pics.
Another pic I found, just for the record.
Another pic I found, just for the record.
Attachments
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KenM
Well-known member
no, adult head pattern and no red under tail coverts mean 2nd calendar year bird
(me: a juvenile Hobby?)
Tom: "no, adult head pattern and no red under tail coverts mean 2nd calendar year bird"
2nd calendar year, Tom? I hadn't thought of that! The Hobby pair had 3 young fledged mid-August, and I've been happily going 'red vent'/ 'no red vent' all these weeks. Now there's a middle age to consider!
After seeing your reply this morning, I thought I had better check the facial patterns of Hobbys. I stepped outside and there was one bird kekking above me, below are 3 photos of it.
No red undertail coverts, but descending dark mark below the eye is clearly there. Is it the dark hook behind the eye that is not so developed in a juvenile?
but is this bird a juvenile, or a 2nd cal year bird?
Tom: "no, adult head pattern and no red under tail coverts mean 2nd calendar year bird"
2nd calendar year, Tom? I hadn't thought of that! The Hobby pair had 3 young fledged mid-August, and I've been happily going 'red vent'/ 'no red vent' all these weeks. Now there's a middle age to consider!
After seeing your reply this morning, I thought I had better check the facial patterns of Hobbys. I stepped outside and there was one bird kekking above me, below are 3 photos of it.
No red undertail coverts, but descending dark mark below the eye is clearly there. Is it the dark hook behind the eye that is not so developed in a juvenile?
but is this bird a juvenile, or a 2nd cal year bird?
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Valéry Schollaert
Respect animals, don't eat or wear their body or s
Juveniles are fresh and, obviously, have never moulted at this time of year. You can appreciate a clear, neat plumage, more precisely a fine line as a trailing edge.
Compare with OP 2cy bird. Flight feathers are irregular and/or worn, not giving the "clean" impression of a juvenile. This is valid for most raptors and really useful at this time of year.
I have never heard about any differences in the face-markings between juveniles, 2cy birds and adult Hobby.
Never read about it anywhere either, so please enlighten me as to where I can find written statements and/or photographs to prove this tentatively brand new piece of info.
My favourite authority to consult in such matter is Dick Forsman, and he writes (in the latest edition of his guide, under the heading 'Species Identification' of Hobby):
"Little variation in head pattern, but juveniles may show a largely pale forecrown, sometimes rather similar to juvenile Red-footed Falcon."
Peter
Never read about it anywhere either, so please enlighten me as to where I can find written statements and/or photographs to prove this tentatively brand new piece of info.
My favourite authority to consult in such matter is Dick Forsman, and he writes (in the latest edition of his guide, under the heading 'Species Identification' of Hobby):
"Little variation in head pattern, but juveniles may show a largely pale forecrown, sometimes rather similar to juvenile Red-footed Falcon."
Peter
https://goo.gl/images/6fvWyd
absolutely upper head not ink jet black and off-white to buff cheeks instead of brilliant white
Tom, the above in bold was what I was referring to, because that would have been ground breaking news.
The quote from D.F. wasn't stating anything but common knowledge (variable colour of the forehead), and neither does your link.
So, I think it's safe to answer the question from Kinthissa with a 'no, it isn't'
Peter
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