Leica, the Trinovid HD and where do I go from here...? (1 Viewer)

Hi folks, I'm fairly new here, having joined several weeks ago to help educate myself on the current choices in higher end optics, with the goal to upgrade my Pentax 8x42 DCF WP. I'm a nature nut, aspiring birder, Archer, sport shooter and occasional hunter.

Since joining, I've bought and sold a few bins, some with high hopes, some just out of curiosity:
EL 8.5x42: (first gen) underwhelming view and not substantially better than the Pentax.
Steiner Predator 10x42: underwhelming view, lacked pop, ergos didn't suit me. Not made in Germany as advertised.
Pentax AD 9x32 A series: Just not special in any way. Just OK.
Bushnell Legend M 8x42: Superb, liked it alot, hard to find fault with it apart from size/weight. Sold because I had the EL SV which was even better.
Swaro EL SV 8.5x42: Superb bin, nice ergos, sharp and a pleasure to use... except that I wasn't keen in the feel of the focus wheel, and I found that the view felt somehow artificial to me. I attribute this to the Field flatteners, but not 100% sure what gave me this feeling.

Currently, I have in my possession a Zeiss RF 10x42, a Vortex Talon 8x42 and just arrived today, a Leica Trinovid HD 10x42.

The Zeiss is superb by all my measures, I find it bright, tack sharp, excellent control of CA and has the added functionality of the RF. The focus wheel is second to none in my experience, and the feel of the whole bin is rock solid, robust feeling. Its a keeper.

To complement the Zeiss, I wanted a smaller/lighter bin for everyday hikes. I've never tried a Leica of any kind, but most of what I read here leads me to think I might really like them. Sharpness, saturated colours, contrast etc are all enticing. Since there isn't a shop nearby that carries Leica, I'm forced to take a leap of faith. I've toyed with the idea of a Ultravid HD+ but have read so many accounts of issues with Leica's control of CA in many of their bins that I thought I would get my feet wet on a lower cost Leica.

Enter the Trinovid HD 10x42.

It arrived today. Firstly, it didn't come with the Adventure strap as advertised, just a flimsy brown neoprene zip case. Maybe not a big deal since the adventure strap gets very mixed reviews, but I would have liked to judge for myself.

Upon handling, first impressions are that the focus wheel feels great, excellent weight, equally smooth in each direction. Hinge tightness feels just right. The diopter ring is WAY TOO EASY to rotate. If you look at it wrong, it will turn. Big demerit points there. Size and weight are very nice for a 10x42, fits my desire for a lighter smaller bin.

The view is sharp, very sharp, rivals my Zeiss and superb pop and contrast. First impression was wow, nice! Then I panned over to some snowy areas, and to my dismay, most of the snowy areas lit by sun were tainted with an outline of magenta and green. Ugh. Areas of high contrast were plagued with CA even dead center although it got much worse off axis. In comparison, the Zeiss, Vortex and my 25yr old Pentax all fared better in this regard. Very disappointing for a $1k bin. So, it didn't take me long to decide this bin would be returned, partially due to the easily turned diopter, but primarily due to the poor handling of CA.

So, if you are still with me after all this rambling, my Leica question is... is the Trinovid HD typical of Leica's handling of CA or is it better/worse than the UVHD+ and Noctivid? If anyone had experience with these, I'd welcome your experiences. From my reading of reviews, all Leicas tend to get criticized for their handling of CA, so I wonder if maybe Leica's just aren't for me, or if I just need to spend more to get a better result.

On my radar are the following:
UVHD+ Safari 10x32 or UVHD+ standard model 10x32 or 10x42
Conquest 10x32
EL SV 10x32
Swaro CL Companion (latest gen) 10x30

Advice or opinions welcome.
Mark

Zeiss Victory 10x32FL.

Or the Kowa Genesis 10x33 for about 2/3 the price of a new Zeiss Victory FL 10x32 (though used FL 10x32 are about the same price as Genesis). The Genesis 10.5x44 weigh more than the RF. I love my Genesis 8x33, but I've never used the FLs and people do swear by those. I have a used Victory HT 10x42 that is fantastic too, but does not save you much weight.

In reviews, the Genesis gets very high marks on low CA and is often compared well with the Victory FL x32, which is often put at the top of the heap.

Looking at weights below, if you want to save any significant weight and stay in 10x, the x32 objective is the way to go.

Sorted by weight

* Victory RF 10x42 32.3 oz / 915.0 g
* Victory HT 10x42 30.00 oz / 850.50 g
* Genesis 10x33 20.81 oz / 589.96 g
* Victory FL 10x32 19.75 oz / 560 g

Marc

markjnk said:

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So, if you are still with me after all this rambling, my Leica question is... is the Trinovid HD typical of Leica's handling of CA or is it better/worse than the UVHD+ and Noctivid? If anyone had experience with these, I'd welcome your experiences.....
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Worse!
The Trinovid HD is actually the worst of all my Leicas when it comes to CA, and I wonder why, since it is said to feature ED glass (or that‘s at least my understanding since I don‘t really know what the “HD“ means in Leica terms, perhaps not the same things as in Meopta terms?).
Both the Noctivid and the UV HDs / HD+s are clearly better in CA correction than the Trinovid HD (I actually prefer the previous non-HD Trinovid over the HD version).
Canip

Torview said:

Zeiss Victory 10x32FL.

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Thanks, I will add this bin to my short list. Is it a great all-rounder or did you recommend it specifically for its ability to handle CA?

marcsantacurz said:

In reviews, the Genesis gets very high marks on low CA and is often compared well with the Victory FL x32, which is often put at the top of the heap.

Looking at weights below, if you want to save any significant weight and stay in 10x, the x32 objective is the way to go.

Sorted by weight

* Victory RF 10x42 32.3 oz / 915.0 g
* Victory HT 10x42 30.00 oz / 850.50 g
* Genesis 10x33 20.81 oz / 589.96 g
* Victory FL 10x32 19.75 oz / 560 g

Marc

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Thanks Marc, very helpful info. I know zero about the Kowa brand, apart from the praise it receives on this forum. I'm not sure I've even seen a Kowa bin in Canada first hand.

Canip said:

Worse!
The Trinovid HD is actually the worst of all my Leicas when it comes to CA, and I wonder why, since it is said to feature ED glass (or that‘s at least my understanding since I don‘t really know what the “HD“ means in Leica terms, perhaps not the same things as in Meopta terms?).
Both the Noctivid and the UV HDs / HD+s are clearly better in CA correction than the Trinovid HD (I actually prefer the previous non-HD Trinovid over the HD version).
Canip

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This is exactly the kind of experience I was hoping to read. So... then I SHOULD be much happier with a UVHD in regards to the handling of CA (and the Dipoter issue) versus the Trinovid HD?

In my view: YES.
Canip

markjnk said:

Thanks, I will add this bin to my short list. Is it a great all-rounder or did you recommend it specifically for its ability to handle CA?

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Personally I`d never call a 10x a great all-rounder, but you seemed to be listing 10 power options.

Probably the best C/A control available, and a very wide 7 deg fov. Hard to fault in a compact 10x IMHO.

Where to go...

If you didn't like the view from the Swarovski EL 8.5X42 Swarovison, you might as well leave all EL Swarovisions alone. While the focus has improved in later models and 32mm models, the view is basically the same. So for you, I'd strike this model. If you want to try another Swarovski model, you might consider a SLC 8X42. It's small by 8X42 standards and the optics are excellent with a different view than the Swarovison models.

Leica- Sure, try both the UVHD+ and the Noctivid. Focus adjustment on both is an improvement over the SV with the Noctivid's among the very best. The UVHD+ is VERY compact for a 42mm.

Nikon- From your comments on your likes/dislikes you might want to give an EDG a try. Though it has been d/c, it's still among the best. There are several on eBay/Amazon. You might give Bob Ward's in Montana a call.

Torview said:

Personally I`d never call a 10x a great all-rounder, but you seemed to be listing 10 power options.

Probably the best C/A control available, and a very wide 7 deg fov. Hard to fault in a compact 10x IMHO.

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Given that I am a hunter as well as a competitive archer, the extra reach of the 10x just works well for me. Good binos are essential for competition archery. Even while hiking and nature observing, much of my subjects are a fair distance away. My Pentax DCF WP is 8x42, as well as my Vortex Talon, both very respectable optics.

chill6x6 said:

Where to go...

If you didn't like the view from the Swarovski EL 8.5X42

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I wouldn't say that I didn't like it, far from that. The EL SV has an extraordinary view, very open and transparent. I got the EL SV before I stumbled upon the Zeiss RF. I was convinced that the EL was THE bin for me, and likely would have been perfectly happy with it until I spent some time behind the RF. It's actually quite strange, that I can't even really say what it was about the RF that made me reach for it over the EL. Suffice to say, that the RF has something that agrees with me, but its very subtle over the EL.

OK, so the next installment of my journey... enter the 10x42 Ultravid HD (non-plus). I purchased a pristine used copy off a sales forum.

My impressions and comparisons:

I can't say that the CA is noticeably better on the UVHD than the Trinovid HD that I received last week. Both look to have the same issue with that regard. Its definitely there if you look for it, which isn't hard to do in our snowy environment right now. The Victory RF still eats them alive in this category.

The focus wheel of the New Trinovid HD is smoother and feels better than the UVHD, but not a huge margin. The UVHD wheel action is still very nice by most standards, just not as fluid as the Victory RF or Trinovid HD.

Overtravel at infinity is VERY small on the UVHD, which puts it right at the very edge of acceptable for me. If I'm planning a hike, hunt or archery tournament, I will usually wear contact lenses, so no issue there. But on a regular daily basis I wear glasses, and will push my glasses up onto my forehead and observe with eye cups extended. I'm just not a fan of viewing bins through glasses, and the inevitable smudges on my lenses. I'm near sighted (-3.25) and the UVHD focus tops out about .5mm (wheel rotation) past infinity for me. Victory has tremendous over-travel, and the Trinovid has about 4-5mm overtravel. I had the same issue with the first gen EL, it stopped about .5mm short of infinity for me (sold it). So for now, the UVHD is OK, but if my eyes worsen ( and they will) it might become a problem.

Sharpness and detail between the UVHD and Trinovid HD is a draw to my eyes. I can't distinguish a winner. Victory is about the same.

Brightness goes to the UVHD by a narrow margin, then the Victory, then Trinovid HD.

Ergonomics go to the Victory, its just so rock solid and well made, balances well and has a very forgiving exit pupil which makes mounting them fast and easy without blackouts. Second, I like the Trinovid HD slightly more than the UVHD, because I find the thumb ridges on the bottom of the UVHD seem to interfere rather than aid.

So do I like the UVHD?... YES. Although it sounds like the Trinovid is better in many ways described above, the UVHD has more contrast, and a more dynamic 3d effect, an overall more engaging image. When you hit focus, the image just pops with life, the 3D effect makes it feel like you aren't looking through bins, but you are there, and colour and saturation are amazing. The Trinovid HD is also good in this regard, just not as WOW as the UVHD. The CA is still bothersome to a degree, but I've decided to give the UVHD a long term opportunity to grow on me, perhaps I'll learn to disregard the CA issue.

Cheers

markjnk said:

I can't even really say what it was about the RF that made me reach for it over the EL.

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At one time I was into quality stereo gear. I would buy a new promising amp, or new promising speakers, or promising tube cd player, etc., and even went down the rabbit hole of $500 interconnects and $1500 speaker cable. I would set up my listening chair in an exact spot where the musicians would appear separated and spread out in distinctive spots in the "sound stage". Sometimes a "wow" product would become irritating after a few days because of a distortion I didn't perceive at first.

my point is that something that seems great for a few minutes, or an hour, or even a couple of days starts to reveal the inaccuracies that at first seemed great after a week or a month. That new wonderproduct caught your attention precisely because of a difference to what you have experienced before, but after some time your brain begins to notice it is not *Natural*. It is a distorted representation of what you feel is natural or normal, or as we would say in audio, representative of what you would hear in a live environment.

I suppose I'm saying just make sure you spend enough time with the bins you intend to keep for the long haul so that any unnatural presentation has a chance to reveal itself before your return period is over.

DunninLA said:

At one time I was into quality stereo gear. .

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Excellent post and right on the money. I too have been down that same road, headphones and headphone amps, I probably went through 10-12 pairs of headphones and a half dozen amps before settling on the system I still listen to today. I agree with your assessment 100%, but that process of exploration, learning, and testing is something I find fascinating. Ive done it with may hobbies, and interests. But once I'm done, and Ive settled on a choice, i move on and enjoy it with the comfort of knowing I have left no stone unturned. I did it with bins 25 years ago, when i settled on the Pentax DCF WP, my budget was more constrained back then but my desire to find the best bin for the money was no different. The EL had just come out and I lusted for it, but was too far out of a newlyweds budget.

Thanks for the great insight.