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Hawke Sapphire v Frontier v Endurance (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Roy C
- Start date
Endurance are their budget scope but it gets great reviews if you look around, also think ClarkWGriswold in BF has it and he highly recommend it. Think the main difference between Endurance and Frontier are the different eye piece and how to adjust focus. Sapphire has the same as the Frontier, flat field view, better eye piece but a more narrow FOV. The Panorama which Sapphire has replaced did cost £1299 when released but I did see it at £699 half a year ago. The Panorama was compared to the Vortex Razor when reviewed but was to expensive at £1299, at £699 it a bargain.
As Cosme says Sapphire if you will use it for digiscope and I would say Frontier for the greater FOV. But Endurance seems like a good scope for a cheap price.
As Cosme says Sapphire if you will use it for digiscope and I would say Frontier for the greater FOV. But Endurance seems like a good scope for a cheap price.
Roy C
Occasional bird snapper
Thanks Tommy,an interesting read. Seeing there is little difference in price I am leaning towards the Sapphire although I probably will not do any digiscoping with it.
Roy C
Occasional bird snapper
Thanks Ron, I will be most interested in your finding :t:
Just taking a break with a brew, at the moment I have three scopes on the go.
Kowa TSN883 25x60 zoom
Optiocron ES 80ED 20x60 SDLv2 zoom and fixed 30x
Hawke Sapphire 20x60 zoom
Need to do more viewing, but so far the Hawke is a non starter optically. It's a lovely piece of kit to look at and use though.
The Opticron is far better, but it's big, very long.
The Opticron with the fixed 30x is a peach, ever compared to the Kowa.
Apart from anything else what stands out the most is the Kowa has a much wider FOV. tham both of these.
Kowa TSN883 25x60 zoom
Optiocron ES 80ED 20x60 SDLv2 zoom and fixed 30x
Hawke Sapphire 20x60 zoom
Need to do more viewing, but so far the Hawke is a non starter optically. It's a lovely piece of kit to look at and use though.
The Opticron is far better, but it's big, very long.
The Opticron with the fixed 30x is a peach, ever compared to the Kowa.
Apart from anything else what stands out the most is the Kowa has a much wider FOV. tham both of these.
Roy C
Occasional bird snapper
Crickey, I would have thought that the Kowa would have been far superior against the Opticron given its price. Do post your further finding Ron
I think the main thing with the Kowa, is it's FoV,
The Hawke is better now the sun has come out, seems to have slight green cast and the image doesn't seem as clean as the Opticron. Definitely not as good at 60x even in bright light. There is much less of a difference between the Opticron and the Kowa than there is between the Hawke and the Opticron. I've just had another look through the Opticron with the fixed 30x, it is fantastic.
And remember I have a Kowa to compare with, so it's up against the best. And it's less than half price.
I'm tempted to order the Opticron HR80 ED and see if it's worth the extra £300.
I can see now why these scopes are so popular. I just wish they were a bit shorter.
The Opticron range at the moment look like the old design, long. It they were more compact with the same optical performance, they wouldn't be able to make enough.
Have to go, more testing to do.
The Hawke is better now the sun has come out, seems to have slight green cast and the image doesn't seem as clean as the Opticron. Definitely not as good at 60x even in bright light. There is much less of a difference between the Opticron and the Kowa than there is between the Hawke and the Opticron. I've just had another look through the Opticron with the fixed 30x, it is fantastic.
And remember I have a Kowa to compare with, so it's up against the best. And it's less than half price.
I'm tempted to order the Opticron HR80 ED and see if it's worth the extra £300.
I can see now why these scopes are so popular. I just wish they were a bit shorter.
The Opticron range at the moment look like the old design, long. It they were more compact with the same optical performance, they wouldn't be able to make enough.
Have to go, more testing to do.
FrankD
Well-known member
That is kind of where the MM3 series comes in. They are shorter and lighter with excellent optical performance. I am just waiting for them to come out with an 80 mm version.
Opticron vs Hawke. Well I think I've seen enough to declare the Opticron the winner.
The Hawke is fine on it's own and in good light no problem. It looses out at the higher mag and like I said it has a slight green cast which gives is dirty look in comparison. On it's own it's fine if you go up to about 45/50x. Probably worth more like £600 than £800. It's not for me.
So the Hawkes going back, now I have to decide between the Kowa at £2000 and the Opticron at £800, £1100 if I decide to go for the HR80ED. On my! it's tough at top. Lol
The Hawke is fine on it's own and in good light no problem. It looses out at the higher mag and like I said it has a slight green cast which gives is dirty look in comparison. On it's own it's fine if you go up to about 45/50x. Probably worth more like £600 than £800. It's not for me.
So the Hawkes going back, now I have to decide between the Kowa at £2000 and the Opticron at £800, £1100 if I decide to go for the HR80ED. On my! it's tough at top. Lol
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That is kind of where the MM3 series comes in. They are shorter and lighter with excellent optical performance. I am just waiting for them to come out with an 80 mm version.
Oh they will, no doubt about that Frank, as soon as I've bought mine. Lol
To be honest, I was looking at a smaller scope, but do they stay sharp at max mag?
The MM3 60ED looks like a cracking little scope.
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FrankD
Well-known member
giosblue,
Yes, they are sharp completely throughout the zoom range. Practically no noticeable increase in chromatic aberration as you move up in magnification...only a slight loss in apparent brightness. I have used both the HDF and SDL V2 on both scopes.
On the other hand I do use the same wide angle, fixed magnification eyepiece on both the 50 mm and 60 mm that you used on the ES 80 but it results in an 18x and 24x magnification respectively with these two scopes because of the shorter focal lengths. It is my primary eyepiece for phonescoping. Here is a sample pic I took this past Sunday at a local pond with the MM3 60 mm and 24x wide angle eyepiece.
Yes, they are sharp completely throughout the zoom range. Practically no noticeable increase in chromatic aberration as you move up in magnification...only a slight loss in apparent brightness. I have used both the HDF and SDL V2 on both scopes.
On the other hand I do use the same wide angle, fixed magnification eyepiece on both the 50 mm and 60 mm that you used on the ES 80 but it results in an 18x and 24x magnification respectively with these two scopes because of the shorter focal lengths. It is my primary eyepiece for phonescoping. Here is a sample pic I took this past Sunday at a local pond with the MM3 60 mm and 24x wide angle eyepiece.
Fantastic Picture !, makes one want to be right there on the water with them.giosblue,
Yes, they are sharp completely throughout the zoom range. Practically no noticeable increase in chromatic aberration as you move up in magnification...only a slight loss in apparent brightness. I have used both the HDF and SDL V2 on both scopes.
On the other hand I do use the same wide angle, fixed magnification eyepiece on both the 50 mm and 60 mm that you used on the ES 80 but it results in an 18x and 24x magnification respectively with these two scopes because of the shorter focal lengths. It is my primary eyepiece for phonescoping. Here is a sample pic I took this past Sunday at a local pond with the MM3 60 mm and 24x wide angle eyepiece.
mayoayo
Well-known member
Wow..giosblue...a couple weeks ago you went through all the fuss with how to upgrade your old optolyht with a newer zoom ,and decided that the view of the optolyth with the baader zoom was so god that you would not need another scope,definitely not a new alpha but i guess you had the bug for scopes after all because you ended buying not one but three¡ ¡..new scopes¡¡¡¡¡
So you have four scopes now...post some photos please,to document the size differences...always a nice touch
To be honest Roy, I don't think you can go far wrong with any scope with a fixed 30x Like as been said previously, it's when your pushing the mag and losing light. The old Optolyth with the fixed 30x was excellent. I've come into a few bob so I thought I would treat myself in my old age.
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