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Moltoni's Warbler - Sylvia (cantillans) moltonii (1 Viewer)

G

Gruff Dodd

Well-known member
Is anyone able to explain to me, in non-scientific terms (I'm not a scientist / ornithologist) why this taxon has not been split by now, but is still considered part of Subalpine Warbler, please?

I kind of understood this approach, under BSC at least, when it was considered to be a Mediterranean island endemic form, although I presume that under the PSC it would have been considered to be an allospecies?

However, I now understand that it has been found to be the dominant breeding form across large swathes of northern and western Italy, where it has been found breeding synpatrically with cantillans. I also understand that it has both plumage and vocalisation differences, as well as differences in DNA, although I'm afraid that tends to go over my head.

In short, therefore, it seems to show all the characteristics to make it a good species under BSC, let alone PSC, so I'm wondering if I'm missing something and why it hasn't been accepted motre widely as a separate species.

Also, if it is a good species, what does this mean for Subalpine Warbler, which would be left with 2 disjunct populations in the west (cantillans) and east (albostriata) with moltonii in between. Is there any prospect of an east v west split of the remaining Subalpine population, as has already been accepted for Bonnelli's Warbler, Orphean Warbler, Olivaceous Warbler, Black-eared Wheatear etc?

Thanks,

GRUFF
 
Gruff Dodd said:
Is anyone able to explain to me, in non-scientific terms (I'm not a scientist / ornithologist) why this taxon has not been split by now, but is still considered part of Subalpine Warbler, please?
Click to expand...

Arguably, Sylvia moltonii has been split from S cantillans:

Brambilla, Vitulano, Spina, Bacetti, Gargalllo, Fabbri, Guidali & Randi 2008. A molecular phylogeny of the Sylvia cantillans complex: Cryptic species within the Mediterranean basin. Mol Phylogen Evol 48: 461-472.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...serid=10&md5=a303e7a27126a943f28f6cce5c6d2b48
​

The split was recognised by Dutch Birding with effect from 1 Jan 2009 (ref. Redactie Dutch Birding 2009. Naamgeving van taxa in Dutch Birding. Dutch Birding 31: 35-37), but as S subalpina:

Baccetti, Massa & Violani 2007. Proposed synonymy of Sylvia cantillans moltonii Orlando, 1937, with Sylvia cantillans subalpina Temminck, 1820. Bull Br Ornithol Cl 127: 107-110).
http://www.ornitologiasiciliana.it/pdf/SylviacantillansBaccettietalii.pdf
​
I suspect that other authorities will eventually follow (but not necessarily using subalpina)...
[It's under review by BirdLife.]

Richard
 
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Gruff Dodd said:
Also, if it is a good species, what does this mean for Subalpine Warbler, which would be left with 2 disjunct populations in the west (cantillans) and east (albostriata) with moltonii in between. Is there any prospect of an east v west split of the remaining Subalpine population, as has already been accepted for Bonnelli's Warbler, Orphean Warbler, Olivaceous Warbler, Black-eared Wheatear etc?

Thanks,

GRUFF
Click to expand...

That kind of open question can sometimes delay recognition of something that looks reasonably clear, because of a tendency to want to do everything at once instead of piecemeal. At least that is my understanding.

I have not read the paper referenced by Richard, so I do not know to what extent the data are complete and clear.

Niels
 
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Italy has also "officially" split Moltoni's Warbler, and I expect that the split will be widely adopted in Europe.

I agree with those who think that the arguments for adopting subalpina instead of moltonii are weak
 
Charles Lucian Bonaparte in his Supplement to the list of bird species in Rome and Philadelphia (1832) says:
Sylvia Passerina. Non essendo questa la Sylvia. passerina, Lath. quantunque sia quella di Teraminck, dovrà chiamarsi invece Svlvia Subalpina, nome col quale il Bonelli distinse l'adulto. Fu il nostro Savi che riconobbe quest' identità, come pure quella della Sylvia leucopogon, ma fece torto al Bonelli coli'anteporre al nome che alla nostra specie aveva dato pel primo un italiano, e che venne consecrato anche dal Temminck nel suo Manuel d' Ornithologie, quello sotto il quale 1' Heckell aveva depositato nel Museo di Francoforte alcuni individui della specie presi in Sicilia, e che non, fu pubblicato da altri, per quanto è a mia notizia, prima che dal Meyer. Anziché rara ed avventizia questa specie è commiissima nei contorni di Roma e perfino nelle boscaglie marine, di primavera: appena si può chiamare migraloria, quantunque cangi stazione.

Sylvia Passerina. Since this is the Sylvia. passerina, Lathe. although it is to Teraminck, should be called instead Svlvia Subalpina, Bonelli's distinguished name by which the adult. It was recognized that our Elders 's identity, as well as that of Sylvia leucopogon, but made the wrong Bonelli coli'anteporre the name that was given to our species was the first by an Italian, and who was also consecrated by Temminck in his Manuel d' Ornithologie, below which 1 'Heckell had deposited in the Museum of Frankfurt a few individuals of the species taken in Sicily, and that was published by others for what is to my hearing before the Meyer. Instead of this species is rare and casual commiissima in the contours of Rome and even in the bush marinas, spring soon as you can call migraloria, although Cangi station.

huh?
 
mb1848 said:
Charles Lucian Bonaparte in his Supplement to the list of bird species in Rome and Philadelphia (1832) says:
Sylvia Passerina. Non essendo questa la Sylvia. passerina, Lath. quantunque sia quella di Teraminck, dovrà chiamarsi invece Svlvia Subalpina, nome col quale il Bonelli distinse l'adulto. Fu il nostro Savi che riconobbe quest' identità, come pure quella della Sylvia leucopogon, ma fece torto al Bonelli coli'anteporre al nome che alla nostra specie aveva dato pel primo un italiano, e che venne consecrato anche dal Temminck nel suo Manuel d' Ornithologie, quello sotto il quale 1' Heckell aveva depositato nel Museo di Francoforte alcuni individui della specie presi in Sicilia, e che non, fu pubblicato da altri, per quanto è a mia notizia, prima che dal Meyer. Anziché rara ed avventizia questa specie è commiissima nei contorni di Roma e perfino nelle boscaglie marine, di primavera: appena si può chiamare migraloria, quantunque cangi stazione.
Click to expand...

Since this is not Sylvia passerina, Lath., although it is Temminck's [Sylvia passerina, presumably], its name should instead be Sylvia subalpina, the name Bonelli bestowed upon the adult. Our very own Savi [Savi was Italian] recognized its identity, as he did with Sylvia leucopogon, but he wronged Bonelli by giving this name priority over the one that had been assigned to it first by an Italian [I'm not really sure what he means here, I'm just translating the text], the same name under which Heckel had deposited several Sicilian specimens of this species in the Frankfurt Museum, and which, as far as I know, was not published by anyone prior to Meyer. Instead of being rare and occasional, this species is abundant in the vicinity of Rome, and even in seaside scrub in spring; it can barely be called migratory, although its occurrence does vary with the seasons.
 
cajanuma said:
Our very own Savi [Savi was Italian] recognized its identity, as he did with Sylvia leucopogon, but he wronged Bonelli by giving this name priority over the one that had been assigned to it first by an Italian [I'm not really sure what he means here, I'm just translating the text], the same name under which Heckel had deposited several Sicilian specimens of this species in the Frankfurt Museum, and which, as far as I know, was not published by anyone prior to Meyer.
Click to expand...

I would understand it that way (maybe you can check for possible inconsistencies with the Italian text...?) :

>> Fu il nostro Savi che riconobbe quest'identità, come pure quella della Sylvia leucopogon,
It was our Savi who recognised this identity, as well as that of (with?) Sylvia leucopogon,
>> ma fece torto al Bonelli
but he did an injustice to Bonelli
>> coll'anteporre al nome che alla nostra specie aveva dato pel primo un italiano,
by placing before the name that had been first given to our species by an Italian,
>> e che venne consecrato anche dal Temminck nel suo Manuel d'Ornithologie,
and that had also been consecrated by Temminck in his Manuel d'Ornithologie,
>> quello sotto il quale l'Heckell aveva depositato nel Museo di Francoforte alcuni individui della specie presi in Sicilia,
that under which Heckell had deposited in the Frankfurt Museum some individuals of the species taken in Sicily,
>> e che non fu pubblicato da altri per quanto è a mia notizia prima che dal Meyer.
and which was not published by others to my knowledge prior to Meyer.


In 1820, Temminck, in the 2nd edition of his Manuel d'Ornithologie, listed both Sylvia passerina (Latham) and Sylvia subalpina Bonelli, treating them as distinct species. (This is where subalpina was introduced for the first time; there, and certainly in all of the contemporary literature, the name is attributed to Bonelli; but as the work is by Temminck, it is Temminck who nowadays is considered to be its author.)
I haven't seen the OP of Sylvia leucopogon Meyer, but the Richmond Index (zoonomen.net) dates it from 1822.
In 1827, Savi, in his Ornitologia Toscana, recognised that Sylvia subalpina Bonelli and Sylvia leucopogon Meyer were identical and applied to the Subalpine Warbler, while he considered Sylvia subalpina Latham unidentifiable. However, he gave priority to Meyer's name, and called the species Sylvia leucopogon, arguing that this name had been given a lot of time before Sylvia subalpina.
Here, in 1832, Bonaparte agrees with Savi's synonymy, but says that Bonelli's name (the name first given to the species by an Italian - of course Bonelli was Italian as well) must be given priority, because Meyer's name had only been used on specimen labels when Bonelli's name appeared in press.
 
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Will the 2007 Norfolk bird now be submitted i wonder. That was considered Moltoni's at the time, and there was an article in Birding World about it.
 
Nick Smith said:
Will the 2007 Norfolk bird now be submitted i wonder. That was considered Moltoni's at the time, and there was an article in Birding World about it.
Click to expand...
Well, recognition as a species or subspecies strictly shouldn't make a difference - moltonii is already on the list of rare taxa considered by BBRC.

Richard
 
njlarsen said:
are they saying that moltonii is 100% diagnosable while eastern vs western is not?
Click to expand...

Yes.
"... In conclusion, plumage- and mtDNA-based diagnosability of taxa belonging to the Sylvia cantillans complex may be considered as straightforward for subalpina, but unreliable for many other individuals, which despite a rather typical ‘albistriata’ appearance show a cantillans mtDNA... "
 
Throughout the description of the methodology used they refer to 'birds' trapped and photographed and tissue samples taken; they provide a list of criteria used to phenotypically differentiate the 'birds'. This is a surely a mistake, as from the paper I assume they actually mean 'males'; the list of criteria describe the strength of colour on the underparts from brick-red, salmon-pink or orange, which does not apply to females.

Further, the study took place in Spring, when the plumage of males should enable easier subspecific identification, so to say '... In conclusion, plumage- and mtDNA-based diagnosability of taxa belonging to the Sylvia cantillans complex may be considered as straightforward for subalpina, but unreliable for many other individuals, which despite a rather typical ‘albistriata’ appearance show a cantillans mtDNA...' is a little misleading. I suspect that the phenology of males in the Autumn is not as easy as in Spring. By and large, in Autumn the coloration of males is obscured by browns (above) or pale feathering (below) and so this statement cannot be applied.

Brian S
 
Taxonomic announcement: BBA/UK400 Club

Lee Evans on UK400Club Bird Forum today:
After some recent correspondence with Brian Small and Andreas Corso and a review of detailed studies kindly referenced and supplied by Alexander Lees, the UK400 Club has upgraded MOLTONI'S SUBALPINE WARBLER (moltonii) to full species status, treating it as distinct from both WESTERN and EASTERN SUBALPINE WARBLERS.

There is just one acceptable British record of this form - that of a singing male at Skaw, Unst, Shetland, from 1-11 June 2009 (see an exhaustive selection of images at the Shetland Wildlife website, as well as definitive sound recordings made of the bird, at
http://www.nature-shetland.co.uk/naturelatest/archives/birdarchive09jun.htm
A further claim from North Norfolk is still under review but seems likely to be rejected.

MOLTONI'S SUBALPINE WARBLER (from hereafter recognised as Sylvia moltonii) differs from both Western and Eastern Subalpine Warbler in plumage, moult, timing of breeding, habitat and contact calls (Gargallo 1994, Shirihai et al. 2001, Brambilla et al. 2007). Recent studies have shown that the breeding ranges of Moltoni’s Warbler and Western Subalpine Warbler (Sylvia cantillans) overlap at several localities in mainland Italy without evidence for interbreeding (Brambilla et al. 2006). Playback tests conducted within and outside the area of overlap in Italy have demonstrated that the two groups do not respond to each other’s songs (Brambilla et al. 2008a). A molecular phylogenetic study indicated that Moltoni’s Warbler and Eastern Subalpine Warbler form separate clades and failed to find evidence for gene flow, even in areas where the two forms have overlapping breeding ranges (Brambilla et al. 2008b). The level of sequence divergence between Moltoni’s Warbler and both Subalpine Warblers is consistent with those typically observed in species taxa, including several pairs of Sylvia warblers (Brambilla et al. 2008b). Therefore, Moltoni’s Warbler and Subalpine Warbler are best treated as separate species (cf. Brambilla et al. 2008a,b,c).

Lee G R Evans
British Birding Association
UK400 Club, Rare Birds Magazine, Ornithological Consultant and Conservationist
Click to expand...

Further discussion here:
http://www.surfbirds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7033

[UK400 Club had already split S albistriata.]

Richard

PS: Also posted on UK400ClubRareBirdAlert:
http://uk400clubrarebirdalert.blogspot.com/2010/06/taxonomic-announcement-moltonis.html
 
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The UK400 Club has accepted this split based partly upon the work of Brambilla et al but does not accept Brambilla et al name for this taxon? Brambilla et al call this S. subalpina. I was looking at Pallas’s addendum to Voeg’s Catalogue. This is where cantillans comes from.
He has a Motacilla var. Cantillans number 179 two numbers away from Motacilla cantillans. It is also from Italy, “Italicis”? I wonder what N. 178 of the catalogue is? Does this description sound like moltoni ?
N. 179 Est Varietas Cantillantis, supra cinerea, in ca-
pite plumbeo cana; subtus alba, in pectore sor-
dida & velut russulo tincta. Alis tamen, rostro,
pedibus, cauda simillima Italicis. [Valt hier.]
Although Pallas later considered this bird a White-throat.
124. MOTACILLA Sylvia. M. supra cinerea, subtus alba, rectrice utrinque extima dimidiato - alba.
Whitethroat, an Spipola Aldrovandi, Willuglib. av. p. 171.
Albin. av. tab. 58! Curruca cinerea sive cineraria, Brisson. ornith. III. p. З76.
sp. 4 tab. 21. ßg. 1. Motacilla cantillantis varietas, Vroeg. catal. adumbr. 179

Zoographia Rosso-Asiatica.
 
Subalpina/moltonii

mb1848 said:
The UK400 Club has accepted this split based partly upon the work of Brambilla et al but does not accept Brambilla et al name for this taxon? Brambilla et al call this S. subalpina.
Click to expand...
IOC has done likewise – ie splitting S moltonii following Brambilla et al 2008 but not adopting the name subalpina proposed by Bacetti et al 2007. BLI also has the split under review as S moltonii.

[Dutch Birding has adopted the name S subalpina for the split.]

Richard
 
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