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Rare birds dead on Queen's estate (BBC News) (1 Viewer)

liverpool_bob said:
In short - the warden and two members of the public saw it while Harry, chums, their spokespersons and servants deny it.

That's the entire basis of the case, right?

The CPS aren't going to lose much sleep over this one...

Cheers,
Bob.
Click to expand...

Hi Bob

Yes, I can see the CPS sweeping this under the carpet quick enough.

Just a front to make out the public have been informed what has really happened -not!! :C

Regards
Kathy
 
liverpool_bob said:
In short - the warden and two members of the public saw it while Harry, chums, their spokespersons and servants deny it.

That's the entire basis of the case, right?

The CPS aren't going to lose much sleep over this one...

Cheers,
Bob.
Click to expand...

I see that the estate factor is trying to suggest that the incident may have never happened. That will presumably be the critical issue for the CPS and for any future prosecution as I'm pretty sure the police will know exactly who was in the area at the time.

I think a lot will depend on how reliable the witnesses are. It's probably safe to say that the reserve warden isn't making the whole story up, unless he (or she) has a desperate wish to lose their job. So the critical thing is likely to be how certain the warden can be that the shot birds were hen harriers. If the warden (and the other witnesses) are experienced birders, then that should help. If however, they were fungi experts out on a fungal foray, their bird ID skills may be open to question.

I really don't think the CPS will just sweep it under the carpet because of the Royal connection. There will be a lot of scrutiny of their decision due to the publicity this case has had.
 
realist, not royalist.

There are a lot of posts on this thread trying to ask "why" and considering it was possibly a mistake of misidentification. Do not worry yourselves about why they did it, accept that whoever pulled the trigger did so on purpose and probably with the full knowledge of what they were shooting. Stupid and ignorant people do stupid and ignorant things and my experience is that there is no point considering why.

If on a shoot day on a grouse / pheasant / partridge stocked estate a raptor passes by many shooters consider the gamekeeper is clearly not doing their job and eyebrows will be raised. It is accepted that the keeper will control buzzards, harriers etc as this is all part of the arrogance of these rich and powerful control freak owners who believe themselves and their interests to be superior to us minions.

Anyone wanting to understand the strength of feeling that keepers have on the issue of raptor control should look up the Scottish Gamekeepers Association website and you will see that the most common theme is one of lobbying parliament for raptor control to be legalised. Or in other words to legalise the illegal activity already conducted by a number of their members.
 
rossicus said:
There are a lot of posts on this thread trying to ask "why" and considering it was possibly a mistake of misidentification. Do not worry yourselves about why they did it, accept that whoever pulled the trigger did so on purpose and probably with the full knowledge of what they were shooting. Stupid and ignorant people do stupid and ignorant things and my experience is that there is no point considering why.
Click to expand...

Did they have 'full knowledge' or were they 'Stupid and ignorant'? You can't have it both ways.

One thing's for sure though - we don't know what happened!
 
Brian Stone said:
Did they have 'full knowledge' or were they 'Stupid and ignorant'? You can't have it both ways.

One thing's for sure though - we don't know what happened!
Click to expand...

"Full knowledge" or "stupid and ignorant". I think that both do apply. The people persecuting raptors do so well aware what they are doing is illegal and the identity of the birds they are killing (apart from poisons which are indiscriminate although abviously intended for raptors or corvids).

From my perspective this behaviour is stupid and ignorant in so far as they are blinkered to the consequences of their actions other than the simple fact that who did it doesn't like harriers so took them out.

If it was Harry I would guess that having spent a lot of time on heather moorland he would be able to id a harrier but at the same time he is far from Einstein (ie stupid) and due to his silver spoon status is ignorant of any bigger picture being so used to getting his own way.
 
Capercaillie71 said:
Assuming the witnesses were correct with their ID.
Click to expand...

I would suggest that they were correct with
their ID. Because of the 'denial' alone! If they,
(the two shoot birds) had been say, two Magpies,
then no doubt two shoot Magpies would have
been proudly displayed. Or at least directed to
where they fell for all to see,or the remains thereof,
i.e. If no bodies, at least a few feathers. That
would then have been the end of the story.

Kind regards,
young Ian.
 
valley boy said:
i bet Harrys a touch pale at the mo
Click to expand...

Aye, he's contemplating the telling-off from Grandma and Dad for the bad publicity they don't need (assuming the royals are in any way shape or form involved in the incident of course)! That is probably all he has to fear. Can't see him doing six months in Strangeways-not that he has to go to prison to do that!
 
Have and Hen Harrier bodies been found with pellet wounds which match up with the cartridges that the two shooters were using?

I'm afraid the answer to that is at the moment no as no bodies have been recovered. I cannot see this investigation going anywhere without bodies.

Most shooters in the UK wouldn't even dream of shooting a bird of prey.

Ollie
 
I personally believe that last sentence to be true, but as you can see from most of the responses here the activities of a minority have tarnished the name of the sport as a whole.

Some would still be against shooting however, whatever the case, even if protected birds were never harmed. It's a matter of faith with some.
 
Alan Seaton said:
I personally believe that last sentence to be true, but as you can see from most of the responses here the activities of a minority have tarnished the name of the sport as a whole.

Some would still be against shooting however, whatever the case, even if protected birds were never harmed. It's a matter of faith with some.
Click to expand...

Hi Alan

I do not believe that anyone would hurt a bird of prey on purpose either. A lot of what we do is how we are brought up and taught to believe in is based from our family roots. Some people do not know any different.

If it is in the Royal blood to hunt, and shoot they will do so no matter what. That is what they want to do, as it is part of their heritage, and no-one will change that at all.

Personally, I do not understand what people find so attractive about it, but it takes all types to make the world.

Regards
Kathy
 
Correct me if I´m wrong, but isn´t one of the people involved, i.e. the member of the hereditary ruling family satrap-caste in the UK, the same guy who was "protected" from having chaps shoot at him recently? I mean, having been taught, at UK taxpayers´expense, to shoot all manner of weapon in order to go and do some overseas job, he was then prevented from going, for fear that, as a soldier, hostiles might actually....try to shoot at him? Considering the fate of the "protected" Hen Harriers on said satraps´ estate, there´s an irony there. Jolly decent of all concerned to overlook it, though, because after all, He Must be Protected....for some reason or other.....(but I don´t really understand the quaint "Ruling Family Cult" thing that some countries still have).
 
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Kathy, I didn't say that I believed that no-one would hurt a bird of prey, some clearly would, which is why I gave up a fair bit of time this year to help guard a hen-harrier nest. I said I believe that the great majority of shooters would not harm a raptor, certainly friends of mine who shoot are pleased to see them about and have often returned to the pub on a Saturday night with tales of the buzzard/merlin/peregrine etc that they've seen.

My point was that it only takes one bad apple to spoil a barrel. Some individuals spoil it for them all.

I don't consider that this, or shooting, or the urge to hunt is confined to any particular social class.

Some would say that birding, listing or photography especially, is simple a form of hunting without the bloodshed.
 
Alan Seaton said:
Kathy, I didn't say that I believed that no-one would hurt a bird of prey, some clearly would, which is why I gave up a fair bit of time this year to help guard a hen-harrier nest. I said I believe that the great majority of shooters would not harm a raptor, certainly friends of mine who shoot are pleased to see them about and have often returned to the pub on a Saturday night with tales of the buzzard/merlin/peregrine etc that they've seen.

My point was that it only takes one bad apple to spoil a barrel. Some individuals spoil it for them all.

I don't consider that this, or shooting, or the urge to hunt is confined to any particular social class.

Some would say that birding, listing or photography especially, is simple a form of hunting without the bloodshed.
Click to expand...

Hi Alan

Sorry for the verbal misunderstanding here.

To spend time as you have in close proximity to HH's nest - well that would have opened up your eyes to many things. I am sure there are many BoP lovers you have met connected in many ways to what you where doing, as you have explained in your last post here.

It is so easy to typecast people. I think we all have learned a lot from reading this thread, as it shows how people view situations like this one.

I know not to assume things now, and as you say, it only takes one bad apple to spoil it for other BoP enthusiasts. If only this was not the case. :C
It is keeping away from the negative things, about hunting, and concentrate on the positive things about BoP's

Better getting the facts right first here, and not jumping the gun here. Maybe that is one of my bad habits - I will admit to here. Not impossible to change that habit for the better though.

Birding is the enjoyable aspect of seeing birds, and it is the best way to understand them as a species. There are different levels of what people want to see too. :-O

Sorry Sancho, I crossed over your last post

Regards
Kathy
 
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