Canon 40D or 1D Mark3 (1 Viewer)

BigHdotcom · Mar 23, 2008

This thread is directed mainly to members who have made the decision to buy either a Canon40D or a Canon 1D Mark3, although of course everyone is welcome to comment.
Currently I use a 30D and a canon 400mm f5.6 for bird photos and I am somewhat disappointed with the noise produced especially when I crop to get a bigger image size. My son has a 40D and in my opinion it is a whole lot better.
I also find I am not getting a good keeper rate in respect to focusing.
However I am in a position to be able to afford a Mark3 and reading the spec it looks like it will do everything I want. The weight is not an issue as I have handled one in Jessops and I found it not much heavier than a Canon 5D which I use for landscapes.
However I am wondering what I can expect for the extra odd £2000 from those who have made the choice
Many thanks
H

a.dancy · Mar 23, 2008

Sadly you have not got any images in the gallery. I am also a bit puzzled as to why you are getting a lot of noise with the Canon 30D...? What ISOs and 'f' stops are you using and how much compensation are you applying? Cropping will increase the apparant noise levels and so too will sharpening.

I am also concerned as to why you are not getting many shots in focus. Have you checked your focusing with static objects? Are your shots really out of focus or are images suffering from handshake? Do you use a tripod or other support?

I have not used the canon 30D or the Mk3 but I have used a 40D and presently use a 20D. Except in extreme conditions where compensating and high ISOs are concerned I do not have an issue with noise. It seems to me that your technique or equipment needs to be explored further.

I imagine I will get the 40D...I cannot afford a Mk3. Both are superb cameras and the 40D is great value for money but unless you can sort out your issues I fear neither will be any good to you , if I am brutally honest IMHO, but good luck with your decision.

BigHdotcom · Mar 23, 2008

Thanks a.dancy for such a quick reply.
A typical recent shot was taken at ISO 400 1/1250sec f5.6 and -2/3 compensation. Subject a barn owl in flight distance c30 meters.
There is no problem when I use the camera for say moto cross or motorcycle racing. But when the camera is used for birds in flight I have this problem far more often. I think it was a tad under exposed which does not help.
But I would like to use a camera which will tolerate less than ideal shooting conditions and I think both the 40D & the Mk3 will be better.
However it will be interesting also to hear from members who have made a similar choice and the reason why.
Again many thanks.
H

Malcolm Stewart · Mar 23, 2008

I had the AF on my 30D calibrated by Lehmanns - can't remember the cost but around £70 from memory. It was a whole lot sharper on its return - using it with an EF 300 f4L. Bird photography not only requires the AF to work, but the aiming points in the viewfinder to correspond to the AF sensors.

I too wanted a 1D MkIII last year but now I'm prepared to sit this one out until my confidence in Canon returns to where it was some years ago when I bought my 5D.

a.dancy · Mar 23, 2008

Malcolm Stewart said:
I had the AF on my 30D calibrated by Lehmanns - can't remember the cost but around £70 from memory. It was a whole lot sharper on its return - using it with an EF 300 f4L. Bird photography not only requires the AF to work, but the aiming points in the viewfinder to correspond to the AF sensors.

I too wanted a 1D MkIII last year but now I'm prepared to sit this one out until my confidence in Canon returns to where it was some years ago when I bought my 5D.

I wonder how long you will have to sit to wait this one out. Canon did not cover themselves in glory. The worst mistake you can make is to shoot yourself in the foot.

chrisli · Mar 25, 2008

I don't think it is the camera, I have all the Canon model right from the 20D, 30D, 40D & the MkIII, the noise levell are equally good in all.
If you are shooting birds and you are 30 metres away, that means the bird must be vey small and you have to do a lot of cropping to get a decent size image which means you have less pixels these will bring out the noise and when you sharpened the image during processing it makes it worse. Even a MkIII will be noisy when you cropped more than 60%.
My suggestion is to get a longer lens like the 500mm or the 600mm with a 1.4TC which will produce a better magnification rate so you don't have to crop so much.
The 30D or 40D with a 1.6 crop will give you a better mag rate compared to a MkIII which is only a 1.3 crop.
A 400mm lens with a 1.6 crop factor gives you 640mm focal length whereas a 1.3 crop factor gives you 520mm focal lens.
In birding the longer the focal length the better which means less cropping.
Therefore I would suggest instead of getting the MkIII invest in a 500mm lens. At least you will get the birds closer. My 2 cents worth.

BigHdotcom · Mar 25, 2008

Chrisli Thanks for that. I know you are correct in what you suggest but a 500 or 600mm lens is a beast to handle, and being the wrong side of 65 I would find this a problem. I also intend to shoot a lot of indoor sports such as Judo and Fencing and from what I have read the Mk3 will be ideal for this.
I think it is a matter of compromise between my interests. I will have to wait until the birds get closer.
However I still haven't decided yet but thanks for you comments
H

PS If you are happy with the 40D I will be interested to know why you bought the Mk3
H

chrisli · Mar 25, 2008

BigHdotcom said:
Chrisli Thanks for that. I know you are correct in what you suggest but a 500 or 600mm lens is a beast to handle, and being the wrong side of 65 I would find this a problem. I also intend to shoot a lot of indoor sports such as Judo and Fencing and from what I have read the Mk3 will be ideal for this.
I think it is a matter of compromise between my interests. I will have to wait until the birds get closer.
However I still haven't decided yet but thanks for you comments
H

PS If you are happy with the 40D I will be interested to know why you bought the Mk3
H

The reason I bought the MkIII is I was fed up of manual focusing with the 400mm with 1.4 TC because it does not AF, even when I taped the 3 pins it hunts at low light. Mind you the 400mm & 1.4TC is a very combo and I have took many a good image with this. [but I have since got the 500mm lens and enjoying it with both the 40D and MkIII]

Since you are into sports, maybe you should consider the 300mm f/2.8 and it works well and produce very sharp images with the 2.0TC, and still gives you 600mm focal length plus your 40D will give you 960mm focal lenght with a 1.4TC with give you 420mm/672mm.

Mind you I am not stopping you from buying the MkIII is just that the focal lenght is reduced due to the 1.3 crop, it is a damn good camera, very fast and the 10fps is wonderful for multiple shots. The tracking is very fast and accurate once the setting is done correctly.

Hope this will help you make your decision.

BigHdotcom · Mar 25, 2008

Chris, thanks again for your comment. I think the 300mm makes more sense to me but I cannot buy both together. I feel while I can afford a Mk3 I should buy it and look forward to buying the 300 in the future. I don't want to buy the 40D and then in a few months regret the purchase saying "I wish........"
H

mike scott · Mar 26, 2008

Have you considered buying a used 1D MKIIN? It's an awesome camera and will leave you with $2000 to put toward a 300 mm f/2.8. You may even be able to pick-up a used Sigma 300 f/2.8 and a used 1D MKIIN for the same price as a 1D MKIII. With that combo, if you are still getting unsatisfactory results, it aint the equipment.

Mike

GYRob · Mar 26, 2008

as cannon said a few weeks ago they have now found the Root Cause of the mk3 focus problem and as yet have not called back all cameras to be fixed again im not sure its a good ider to buy a mk3 just yet .
Rob

chrisli · Mar 27, 2008

mike scott said:
Have you considered buying a used 1D MKIIN? It's an awesome camera and will leave you with $2000 to put toward a 300 mm f/2.8. You may even be able to pick-up a used Sigma 300 f/2.8 and a used 1D MKIIN for the same price as a 1D MKIII. With that combo, if you are still getting unsatisfactory results, it aint the equipment.

Mike

Mike this is a good suggestion, apparently a lot more user find the MkIIn to be a better camera than the MkIII though I have not use it before. The Sigma 300mm f/2.8 is a good lens optically as well or you can consider the Sigma 120-300mm f/2.8 for flexibility, and both these lens are very sharp even at wide open.

BigHdotcom · Mar 27, 2008

Mike thanks for your comments. I did consider a used Mk11n but i could not find a good one. Good used ones in mint condition are as rare as hens teeth and when you do find one the owner has bought a Mk111 which may tell me something.
However after reading the experiences of Art Morris with the Mk3 I have gone and bought one.
The 300mm f2.8 lens is no doubt the way to go for me but that will have to wait.
I will make do with my 400mm f5.6 and 1.4x converter in the meantime
Thanks again
H

postcardcv · Mar 27, 2008

BigHdotcom said:
Chris, thanks again for your comment. I think the 300mm makes more sense to me but I cannot buy both together. I feel while I can afford a Mk3 I should buy it and look forward to buying the 300 in the future. I don't want to buy the 40D and then in a few months regret the purchase saying "I wish........"
H

If I were you I'd spend money on a lens now and a camera later, top quality glass will have more effect on your images and last a lot longer than a pro camera. Personally I'd rather have a 300 f2.8 and a 40D than a 1D mk III and no new lens... but that's probably just me.

BigHdotcom · Mar 27, 2008

I can only agree with this but I didn't have a 40D and buying one together with the 300mm was not an option.
However I don't consider a 400mm f5.6 anything other than top quality glass. Have a look at the images which Art Morris and others have taken with this lens.
Thanks again for your comment
H

postcardcv · Mar 27, 2008

BigHdotcom said:
However I don't consider a 400mm f5.6 anything other than top quality glass.

I have no arguement with the quality of this lens (I have one and am very happy with it). However a longer or faster (allowing tc's to give you more length while retaining AF) will have an advantage in many situations.

It must be said that having seen the amazing low light performance of a friends mk III I'd be very happy to be using one.

bmarnell · Oct 15, 2009

postcardcv said:
.....

It must be said that having seen the amazing low light performance of a friends mk III I'd be very happy to be using one.

Any possibility of an up-to-date comment on the mk III, particularly in relation to AF for BIF, please?

tdodd · Oct 15, 2009

Speaking as the owner of a 30D, 40D, 50D and 1D3 I can confidently say that my 1D3 performs superbly for BIF AF and absolutely walks all over the xxD bodies for ease of use and keeper rate with BIF. The IQ is also exemplary. I've had the recall check performed (AFAIK nothing needed doing) and I'm running the latest firmware. Here are five examples shot this afternoon with my 100-400, hand held at 400mm and f/5.6. All are cropped to varying degrees and have no PP other than the cropping.

These and others from today are in an album here - http://picasaweb.google.com/EezyTiger/Birds. Obviously a little PP would help improve these raw images. In my hands, at least, there is no chance I would have had so many keepers, nor the IQ, from my xxD bodies.

I'm very happy with my 1D3.

tdodd · Oct 15, 2009

In terms of AF, here's a 100% crop example from the second image above

graham catley · Oct 15, 2009

sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't it all depends on subject movement and operator error but who would want a 100% success rate? you would run out of subjects after a year!

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